Why?

[Andreas the Wise]

Why do we go into practical civil war every time I'm away for a week? Virtually every forum I check has had about a thousand posts this last week and it's all too confusing.

You have several hours to explain to me what ended up happening with this chaos before I create a huge army for myself and storm the whatever is opposing it to get the voting system fixed ....

[Erik Mortis]

Jacobus Amended the charter with two poorly written amendments that 1. made it so we can't create the legal system Mike and I wanted. 2. Destroyed the economic voting system.

Because he knew that the Landsraad would be unlikely to put into the Lawbook these laws, and that the next Kaiser would possibly remove it from the Decreebook, and that he could not legally decree the voting system change due to that being interference in the Procedures, he put them into the Charter.
Jonas gave consent to Praetor to both amendments, despite the fact that they weakened the Landsraad.

Major Criticism.
1. The content of the Amendments are unpopular.
2. The amendments are poorly written.
3. The voting amendment circumvented the protections of the Landsraad in the Charter.
4. Jonas failed to protect the Landsraad.
5. The Charter should not be used for such things.
6. Jacobus did it then abdicated, leaving the mess for Corey.


Other outcomes:
1. The Judex, based on the new Amendment has declared the economic voting system illegal.
2. The Kaiser(corey) dismissed the Landsraad till at least Monday.
3. There is discussion on revamping the Charter. (which I've been VERY vocal about)

[Jonas]

1. The content of the Amendments are unpopular.

Civil war! Yay!

2. The amendments are poorly written.

Excellent!

4. Jonas failed to protect the Landsraad.

Wait a minute! Failed in something I never tried!

[Malliki]

1. The content of the Amendments are unpopular.

Civil war! Yay!

2. The amendments are poorly written.

Excellent!

4. Jonas failed to protect the Landsraad.

Wait a minute! Failed in something I never tried!

Yeah, and that is the biggest problem actually.

[Jess]

[Jacobus Loki]

The Preator and I knew exactly what we were doing, we did it deliberately and I, at least, would do it again.

What I regret is leaving Corey with a mess.

Shireroth has to decide whether it rules itself according to its laws, or if it is ruled by extra-legal considerations.

[Andreas the Wise]

I do see your point of view fine. You think you're protecting the Landsraad by giving it's Dukes 1 Duke 1 Vote, and others think you're limiting it's power by taking away it's ability to decide it's own voting system. I'm just annoyed you're limiting the most exciting part of the economy. But no hard feelings.

[Jacobus Loki]

Notice I deliberately said "Dukes". If we decide to let the Barons in, who knows?

I respect all of the work put into the economy. That's why I waited so long to do what I did.

As far as the "legal system". I've no trouble with a "Mango Bar". I just loathe the idea of restricting access to the courts to those who have passed a test.

By all means, make others ineligible to charge fees, but if you restrict court access to members of a bar, there will come a time where the courts will become an oppressive tool.

I'm also chilled by the talk of controlling the Kaisership, restricting who may serve. That choice should reside with the Kaiser.

[Andreas the Wise]

As far as I recall, the law WAS only restricting those who could charge fees ....

Though it would be interesting to make all Dukes have a vote of one erb and open up the Landsraad to barons voting with erb voting blocks ....

[Jacobus Loki]

As far as I recall, the law WAS only restricting those who could charge fees

Then that is a non issue......

[Erik Mortis]

The fact remains it was OUR choice to make as a nation. Not yours! Your move was shallow and shortsighted. You thought only of your own view on what was "right" and "just". Did you ever consider that people WANTED the economic voting system? That people might WANT to restrict being a lawyer to those qualified? (Gods know we've had to deal with enough inept people in Micronational courts) We didn't even get to discuss it.
YOU violated the "rights" of this entire community on both fronts when you stripped the Landsraad of the right, the only protection it had, to set its own procedures. And you violated the "rights" of this entire community once again when you stripped from us the right to choose how we conducted our legal system!

I don't care if you hate it, I don't care if it would reduce your enjoyment. This isn't YOUR nation. Hell, it's not even mine anymore. You had no place dictating to us all, on your way out, for all time, that we must for all time obey your wishes, your wim!

[Jacobus Loki]

I don't care if you hate it, I don't care if it would reduce your enjoyment. This isn't YOUR nation. Hell, it's not even mine anymore. You had no place dictating to us all, on your way out, for all time, that we must for all time obey your wishes, your wim!

On my way out. (sigh)

I thought it bes that Corey be able to deal with it as Kaiser, not as Steward with questioned powers.

You had no place dictating to us all.....

Then why does the Kaiser have the power if he is not meant to use it?

....for all time......

Hardly. If I shut up and sit in the corner, you will have it undone soon. Cost be damned, the Charter must be as thou wills it to be!

....your whim!

Ahhhh, my well thought out, oft expressed, and agreed-with-by-many positions are now a spur of the moment "whim".

You don't care..... Your will must prevail. Perhaps, maybe even most likely.

(Sigh.)

I don't need this.......

[Erik Mortis]

Neither do I... but here I am. If you had decreed this into the Decreebook/got this passed by the Landsraad, I might have made a comment then gone back to whatever I was doing.

Mess with the Charter and the core structure of the government, THEN I care. The charter is the one thing that lets me vanish and not care, and relax. I only care about the core anymore, I'm long past trifles like rights, voting systems, economies and lawyers. I care only about the maintainance of the Charter, and the core governmental structure of Shireroth.

You dragged me into this when you botched up the Charter. And my statements stand! You obviously don't get that the Kaiser isn't really absolute and never was, never will be. Do I need to shatter the fantasy and explain how all this actually works? Or can you take my word, that after 8+ years, I've figured out how Shireroth really operates, what needs to happen to keep it so it can withstand anything, and where my place in it all is.
And accepting that I know how to keep things operating for another 8+ years, your amendments MUST be removed, and the charter returned to how it was, or most/all my draft revisions put into play. (I'm still calculating them all. Some might get scrapped).