Protection of the People from Overzealous Moderators Act

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

Section 1. The title of this act shall be the "Protection of the People from Overzealous Moderators Act", and may be called by its short form the "Freedom of Speech Act".

Section 2. Chapter VII, Section H shall have the following subsection appended to it:

"3. Rights of Contributors
a. No post made within the Imperial Republic of Shireroth may be deleted or edited by anyone other than its creator for any reason. Should the need for a post to be removed arise, specifically if it is a threat to national security or discloses information deemed "secret", the post shall be moved to a hidden location where only the Kaiser and the Shirerithian intelligence agency have access.
b. All citizens shall have the right to post within the public areas of every subdivision of Shireroth. Those with specific restrictions must have a clearly indicated warning notifying the public of said restrictions. Anyone posting in a restricted forum shall be informed via PM of their fault and all the applicable rules, and have their post moved to the nearest public forum.
c. Anyone caught infringing on this right shall have their powers stripped from them immediately."

Section 3. This act shall go into effect immediately upon passage, but shall not be retroactively enforceable.

Fellow nobles, I come to you today on the heels of an unfortunate incident that has forced one of our citizens to reconsider his citizenship here with us. While discussing an action which he was taking part in, Maksym Hadjimehmetov's posts were split from the original topic and moved outside of Froyalans Løgting, where a rule was in place keeping non-nobles and non-Froyalans from posting. In response to his posts being apparently deleted, he decided to quit Shireroth. While he is currently reconsidering, his case brings forth the need for a written law keeping such actions from happening in the future.

Legislation such as the one I bring before you today has not been implemented in may nations. However, those that do enjoy markedly more heated debates that bring up more interesting points. Once the fear of an angry God-like Administrator is removed, people tend to feel safer making their actual views heard, instead of the watered down version.

I do realize, however, that there is a need for posts to be somtimes moved around, and so have created clause B, granting all citizens the right to post in other subforums, much as US citizens are free to move from Pennsylvania to New York without any ill effects and enjoy the same freedoms, but allows illegal posts to be removed, much in the same manner as illegal immigrants in the southern US are deposited in Mexico.

I urge you to make these necessary changes to our legal structure, as it will ensure that events, such as those that have taken place this afternoon, will not be repeated.

[Braden Indianensis]

Freedom of speech? In Shireroth? This is most irregular...

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

Freedom of speech? In Shireroth? This is most irregular...

My apologies, sir, but since you are not a Noble, I must ask you to refrain from posting within the Landsraad. This area is for nobility only. You may, however, comment at the front gate.

[Andreas the Wise]

Are we allowed in here, Nick ... I always thought it was just Dukes.
But I agree with the bill. I've always thought it a terrible thing for posts to be deleted. But I'd add that posts can be edited if they contain explicit material (or moved to a secret forum unedited). While I haven't seen any spam on Shireroth, there's always the possibility ...

[Yvain Wintersong]

Nobles of the Landsraad:

This bill does not currently have my support.

As the wise Baron of Atterock has said, we must be vigilant against the possibility of spam. If someone posts advertisements for pills, or pornography, we need to have the right to delete that quickly and without fuss. It is a credit to our Ministry of the Interior that we don't get as many bots as other forums, but we don't know that our good fortune will hold - if nothing else, a real human could register to hawk his products.

Further, we nobles are lords and ladies of our subdivisions, and the Landsraad should not interfere in our internal matters without due cause. Recently Hesam Jahandar posted the same message in each one of my four Counties. Although I haven't yet gotten around to deleting it in three of the four, I certainly plan to do so. I don't want the Landsraad telling me that I have to move it to some special museum forum for preservation unless that's what I feel like doing.

Outside the subdivisions, posts are the responsibility of the Kaiser and the Minister of the Interior. The Landsraad does not have the power to command the Kaiser, and it's unclear to what degree we can command the Ministries. However, I trust both these individuals to do their jobs fairly and properly.

Although I recognize the value of not deleting important posts willy-nilly, I prefer a less heavy handed approach. Let the Landsraad resolve that a certain forum be set aside for the preservation of inappropriately posted messages, and let the nobles choose which messages in their subdivisions should be deleted or sent into the forum. I would also support a ban on the deletion of history - forbidding nobles to delete any post more than a few months old - because that has become the common property of the nation.

I would be willing to change my mind if this bill found a way to clearly distinguish between worthwhile posts and spam-type posts and banned deletion only of the former, but I doubt that would be a simple matter to write a decision procedure for.

I yield the floor.

[hypatias mom]

I believe that Barons and Baronesses, as well as Dukes, and Duchesses, may speak in the Landsraad, though only Dukes may vote on measures before this august body. I believe it important to remind the nobles of Shireroth of a scourge of unwanted, unsought, often off-color or advertising postings by spam artists or by persons unknown, that had to be eliminated ruthlessly from the forum during this past year and a half. We also had to ban many log-in names which were registered sp the writer could post here. This went on for a couple of months, with different log-ins each day. If we have a blanket prohibition on the deletion of any posts, it will be hard to reach a satisfactory conclusion to such a situation.

I totally concur with the concern to make sure actual posts by real people who are not trying to perpetrate a fraud or crime against the nation of Shireroth must remain in the forum, but feel it necessary to request this caveat be added to the provisions of this otherwise fine measure.

[Andreas the Wise]

As Hypatias Mom and Yvain said - spam messages should be able to be deleted. Post in people's forums ... well, there could be the argument to leave them there to not mess with the post count function, but nobody is going to think any less of Shireroth if it's post count is a little low so that doesn't matter.

I agree that nobles should have some control over posts to a degree, but perhaps not free to delete. How about free to lock/move and request deletion if necessary (like old posts - you lock, not delete). And something about penalties for abusing powers?

[Kaiser Mors V]

Actually.. Only Dukes are supposed to be able to even get in here to post... so.. errr... well.. crap... What I break... I know I'm allowed as Kaiser and Duke of Brookshire... Ari... any ideas...?

[Kaiser Mors V]

Okey.. I fixed it..

Is it me.. or have I not noticed Jonas in a while...?

[Kaiser Mors V]

And now for the matter at hand... Right..

I cannot support at move by the Landsraad to strip nobles of Rights over their own lands.. If a duke goes overboard and out of control... individual action ought be taken, I agree. As I was prepared to chastise someone for the deleting of the post that brought this up.. but that situation cleared itself up... so I had no need to get involved..

Also... I don't think Barons are allowed to even speak here at the moment. someone point out the law to the contrary in the Front Gate and I'll fix it.. otherwise it's just Dukes at the moment...

Well.. crap!.... The precedures in the wiki.. say all members can vote.. and that membership is outlines in the charter... the charter... is not even in effect... If it was... the charter says All NOBLES are members... so.. ummm.. Barons and Dukes now get equal votes?

Even more wait...

The Kaiser, any member of the Landsraad, and the Praetor, can freely express their opinion on any bill presented in the Landsraad. Any person may post in the Landsraad, but the posts of people not expressly allowed to speak freely in the Landsraad are placed in a moderation queue. If the Praetor considers a post in the moderation queue to be important for the members voting on a bill to be aware of, he or she may approve the post to be included. However, the Praetor has no obligation to do this for any post.

Now I'm all confused... I'm gonna put things back as they were and let other argue about it...

Brookshire NAY.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

People, people. Whilst I was under the misconception that my posts had been deleted, I'm perfectly aware now of the rules of the Logting and accept that my posts were just moved. I do think this legislation is important though, and I do support its passing.

[Harald of Froyalan]

Although I oppose frivolous deleting/editing of posts a Nation-wide blanket ban on the deletion or editing of any and all posts simply goes way to far for it strips one of the tools to deal with spam and other illegitimate posts.

Froyalan votes Nay.

[Jonas]

Only Dukes are permitted to speak in the Landsraad.

Okey.. I fixed it..

Is it me.. or have I not noticed Jonas in a while...?

Busy days, Your Niftiness. Busy days...


Kildare votes Nay!

[Jacobus Loki]

This would be a slippery slope. The next thing you'd see would be Democracy (shudder).

Although I support the thought behind the bill, Yardistan reluctantly votes Nay.

(edited to conform to custom)

[Jonas]

This would be a slippery slope. The next thing you'd see would be Democracy (shudder).

Although I support the thought behind the bill, Yardistan reluctantly votes no.

This vote isn't valid: you must vote with Aye or Nay

[Ari Rahikkala]

This vote isn't valid: you must vote with Aye or Nay

Actually...

Each member has one vote, which he or she may cast in any unambiguous way to represent a vote of aye or nay, on any bill during the voting period.

I know that was a joke, but really, Jonas, that wording is there for a reason so please just... don't go there. Especially don't go there when you're up against a Yardistani .

Oh, and BTW, Straylight abstains (i.e. doesn't vote).

[Jonas]

I demand that Jacobus say 'Nay'!

[Jacobus Loki]

There is a time and a place to go Yardistani on somebody....This isn't the time. Yet.

Tradtions must be upheld, and if the Steward expects co-operation from the Praetor, then the proprieties must be observed.

The Anarch can bide his time

[Jonas]

Disapproved

Aye: 0
Nay: 3
no: 1
Abstain: 1