The Problem of Kaikias

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:48 pm

It seems to me that the situation with Antica may be carried to its termination in four ways. Before I list them, know that I support giving them the rest of the DOA in all options.

1.) We keep Kaikias, but I acknowledge my unjust inheritance of such.
2.) The Anticans start up a province of their own called Kaikias, having, as they do, all rights to the name, history, etc. We would keep our Kaikias, and we'd have the designations of "Shirithian (North) Kaikias, and Antican (South) Kaikas.
3.) My personal favorite: We divide Kaikias roughly in half. I move my capital from Neronea to another city, but we keep half. One proposed map:

4.) We give the Anticans all of the Duchy, and I move somewhere else. (My LEAST favorite.)

Kaiser Meskan II · Post by **Kaiser Meskan II** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:02 pm

Personally, I think that it might be better if we took the shore enclave instead, actually. Hmm. Perhaps we should talk to someone in Antica about this. (Oh... wait... Duh.

) Who? Chris, right?

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Thu May 11, 2006 3:28 am

Yeah.

Post by **Scott of Hyperborea** » Thu May 11, 2006 8:53 am

I don't believe we unjustly inheirited Kaikias. If we want to give it to the Anticans as a peace offering, fine. But we got it fair and square when Delphi and several other Anticans gave it to us. Indeed, we even offered it to the Republic as part of a peace deal and they didn't want it, saying something like (if I recall correctly) that it was a dump. I can try to find the stuff when we have more time.

Also, we should take South Kaikias and give them North, because the north half is always the evil one. Witness North/South Korea, North/South Vietnam, North/South Ireland, North/South Dakota, et cetera.

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:06 am

One idea I suggested after seeing how the Duchy of Antica was made smaller by the MCS was for the Republic to regain the space that was the original Kaikias, while the County of Kaikias, which currently occupies what was northeast Platea, remains with Shireroth.

Or alternatively it can always be co-controlled as both a County in Shireroth and a Province in the Republic, but that would be kinda weird... but weird is also fun.

Kaiser Meskan II · Post by **Kaiser Meskan II** » Thu May 11, 2006 10:35 am

Also, we should take South Kaikias and give them North, because the north half is always the evil one. Witness North/South Korea, North/South Vietnam, North/South Ireland, North/South Dakota, et cetera.

North America / South America, North Mondesia VS South Mondesia and North Mar Sara (Shirerothian) and South Mar Sara (Menelmacari) ?

And it's not always true. North/South Carolina is proof of this.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:30 am

Yes, very true! However, if we were to use the map I have suggested, I could rework it a bit so that the Anticans got Neronea, and I could conjure up some new city further north in our seaside enclave (I like Civitas Servilia or Civitas Atia.) Personally, I dislike the idea of having dual governments. And as far as reclaiming the land that was Kaikias? I dunno. Last night, I foolishly used the old Kaikias map instead of the new one, so I think it would be better to get it back, recognize the newer Kaikias as part of..that other county, whose name I can't remember..and then give the rest of the DOA to the Anticans, including the half of Kaikias we cede to them. Also, if we use the map above, we should really call the places West and East Kaikias--as redundant as that is, if you know whom Kaikias was.

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:31 am

I'm not suggesting a dual government, simply a dual nature, with a single government.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:41 am

Still though..feels weird.
Another map with some changes:

As you can see, in this map, the Anticans would get the greater part of the territory, as well as the beautiful city of Neronea. We, meanwhile, take the enclave, and move our capital to Civitas Atia, in the north.

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Thu May 11, 2006 11:51 am

Andorra does the same thing.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Thu May 11, 2006 4:02 pm

The Count of Urgel and Bishop of Foix.

We could have the Count of Gurgle and Bishop of Foiled. :P

Kaiser Meskan II · Post by **Kaiser Meskan II** » Thu May 11, 2006 9:35 pm

Okay, this isn't going to work at all if Antica severes all ties with Shireroth like it plans to. (and is currently passing at the moment from what I hear) See http://www.foghorn.myfxh.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=969

A movement for reconciliation needs to go both ways. I'm willing to work with them if they are willing to work with me.

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:51 am

Hmmm... I oughta vote on that some time.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:21 am

Perhaps the Anticans can be persuaded to forgive us, when they see the gynormous territorial subsidies we are making to them?

Kaiser Meskan II · Post by **Kaiser Meskan II** » Fri May 12, 2006 11:58 am

Well, first of all, you're an Antican and can help with said vote.

It would be great if there was offical diplomatic contact with Antica, but currently all I see is just people in Antica to talk to, rather than someone representing them. I believe someone said that Gemini would be the diplomat, so I'll try to talk to him.

Kaiser Meskan II · Post by **Kaiser Meskan II** » Fri May 12, 2006 12:02 pm

Ooh! I came up with another disproof of the North/South thing. North/South Novi Dalmajica!

hypatias mom · Post by **hypatias mom** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:06 pm

Has it even occurred to the Anticans that, if someone had presented proof of Delphi's guilt, rather than merely circumstantial evidence, he would probably have been convicted of the charges against him? Without proof, a conviction would have been a miscarriage of justice. Even if Delphi seemed guilty, there was no proof of this submitted to the court.

The Anticans, therefore, bear at least some responsibility in this case, and do not need to condemn Shireroth for attempting a true adjudication of the case before it.

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Fri May 12, 2006 1:14 pm

There was proof he had the motive, means, and... whatever that third thing is.

Conglacio · Post by **Conglacio** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:04 pm

I have the motive, means and opertunity to eat one of these mints that are on the desk here...
have I done it? no.

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:06 pm

But if one turns up missing, then you're prime suspect, along with anyone else who fits that.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:32 pm

Yeah, like that little mouse in Dave's room.

ARREST THAT MOUSE!

Chrimigules · Post by **Chrimigules** » Fri May 12, 2006 3:55 pm

Or set up a trap to decapitate him.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Fri May 12, 2006 6:16 pm

Hooray for summary executions!

Conglacio · Post by **Conglacio** » Sat May 13, 2006 2:13 am

you can be Prime Suspect without being Guilty.

osmose1000 · Post by **osmose1000** » Sat May 13, 2006 9:22 am

I have a motive to shoot someone - they killed my brother in a car accident. I have a means to shoot them - I have my Father's Colt .45. I have an oppourtunity to shoot them - they walk through my neighborhood after school on the way home and pass through an alley near my house.

They were found dead in said alley. I am the prime suspect and the police interrogate me. I tell the truth that I wanted him dead and had a gun, but I didn't kill him. They take me to court.

"He wanted this kid dead. He had a gun to kill him with. He knew where to kill him so no one would know. He is guilty!"

That is, until the first scrap of evidence is found - the bullet that shot him was not from my father's gun. Then they find his wallet a few blocks down, discarded and empty of money. The find that the kid was able to move himself down the alley a bit before dying, thereby proving that he was alive after being shot and able to move, suggesting that he was shot and left. Fingerprints are found on his jacket and they do not match me.

All of the circumstancial oppourtunity is worth shit against a single piece of evidence. A court can not, and should not, convict someone based on that they could've done something. And what's worse, they keep bitching even though Delphi is long gone. It's utter crap that Shireroth, a relatively honest nation that is respected by most nations, should be pushed around by a small nation full of opinionated idiots who are too busy hating a single person to realize that he's gone. They should be glad that a nation such as Shireroth has the benevolency to offer them their former land back. And that most of it's citizens are pushing for peace with them even though Shireroth has the land that they want.

Braden Indianensis · Post by **Braden Indianensis** » Sat May 13, 2006 10:15 am

The vote to condemn Shireroth has tied, I believe. As far as the Anticans being opinionated idiots, who in micronationalism isn't opinionated, and furthermore, how much of the rest of the world would regard the whole lot of us as idiots?

Of course, their need to destroy Delphi, a spectre who is fast fading, is a bit unreasonable, but not quite as much when you consider the fact that he probably did destroy their fora. What do they expect us to do, anyway? Find Delphi guilty without proof, and be a disgrace to justice? Or try him again, and lose all credibility in the micronational world, for not being able to come to a decision, and wimping out to political pressure? Perhaps we should try him again--in proxy, of course, since he is gone-- and ask totally absurd questions like, "Mr. Delphi, on the night in question, were you, or were you not, wearing a hoop-skirt?*"

Anyway, enough venting our frustrations about Delphi. It won't get us anywhere. The main problem is: the Anticans don't like us, because we refused to punish Delphi on circumstantial evidence. They won't carry out negotiations with us until we are reconciled, and we can't reconcile until some penance is done about the Delphi situation. Solution: Reconcile with Antica. How do we do this? Since the condemnation is tied, and will be restarted in the debate-revise-vote process, we will have enough time to persuade the Anticans to except the teritory we're offering them, and carry out negotiations about Kaikias. Swift action needs to be taken. If I may be bold enough to advise His Excellency, the Kaiser, a diplomatic committee to Antica should be gathered immediately to deal with this.

*Shameless Futurama plug

Kaiser Meskan II · Post by **Kaiser Meskan II** » Sat May 13, 2006 11:32 am

I'm moving this thread to the IAC, simply because it seems that this thread is IAC material.