New Forum Graphics

[Ryan]

Also, I think we should replace ol Orcy boy in the background with something new. Four years of it is getting rather borish. I like the background at this page;http://www.blizzard.com/wow/That misty forest is wicked cool.Besides, I think I can incorporate ol Orcy into some other forum graphics... Maybe new buttons or somethin.

[Ryan]

We need an update to the forum. A cultural revolution, if it must be termed. Shireroth lacks a definitive culture, and while this is good cause it's versatile and we can pull stories from our collective teezees, I think it's hurting us in the long-run.So, since we've already kinda got a WarCraft theme goin *looks to big Orc as the background*, i've taken the liberty of making two new graphics.A new forum banner;It keeps the flag, like Erik wanted, but uses opacity filtering so I could put some cool WarCraftish images in the back.And a new unread image gif (to replace that way outdated "New" image that shows up on every forum)These graphics were commissioned by the Kaiseress herself, so I know I didn't waste my time this round. I'll probably be making more stuff. And you can hotlink directly to these URL's, as I can hotlink off of AOL and got plenty of space.If anyone has any ideas, please share them.Except Erik, cause I know all he's gonna do is rant and whine conservative gobbledy-gook.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Humh. You know, I've been playing around with framebuffer X today, and since I haven't been able to get high refresh rates (at least yet), I've made Firebird render all pages with a black background (looking at bright stuff at low refresh rates makes your eyes bleed)... and you know what? Shireroth looks now, IMO, several times cooler than it ever did...http://www.lyseo.edu.ouka.fi/~li...shot-c.png In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to a Finn.

[Scott Alexander]

1. Don't go too overboard with the Warcraft theme. Too close to a computer game or licensed franchise = MUY BAD!2. The background looks awful...it tiles five or six times, scrolls weirdly, and has green lines in between. Find out how the Baracaoans did theirs and do that.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

Thank you, WarVoid for the beautiful pictures ^_^Scott...1. Yes, I though about that... Not sure... Hmmm.2. Better? May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Gryphon the Pure]

since we're so keen on upgrading graphics right now, is it possible we could do some kind of opacity thing on the background to the forum names? Maybe have something that looks vaguely 3-d with a border, so it doesn't look like someone put a piece of tape over the window to ... whatever place that bacground image is... Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

[Amir Shervanis]

I honestly dunno how the text would look on a transparency setting with that background.As for the background, if you want it fixed, go into custom HTML, under the "body" slot, and enter;background="http://www.angelfire.com/hero/aure/pagebg.jpg" bgproperties="fixed"That keep the background stationary, while the rest of the page scrolls.And as for Scott's comment, i've used multi-themed images from various places. It's not so much WarCraft, as it's just general "forest fantasy"; i.e. Orcs, Tauren, knights, horsemen, barbarians, dragons, big castles, etc..I already know the route of going towards licensed themes. Look at Menelmacar and Apolyton.

[UEC]

*is pissed as was predicted because this wasn't an improvement*The only thing I like is the new topic things...Fuck "Culture"... I hate made up culture... and enough with the WarCraft... I did that long ago.. just because... no need to continue.... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Ryan]

Jeez, thanks. I spend the whole morning doing up a nice banner and work and all I get out of it is "fuck culture".And then you people wonder why I join Babkha...

[UEC]

WEll.. think about it.. we aren't Bill!.. We don't need to make up culture and junk.. we have one... that consists of all the people, and stuff. We have a culture that evolved over time not simply.. got written out in a night of boredom.I know we have some of that kinda stuff.. but it has never really been a big part of the nation. and Forum graphics aren't going to make culture.I have to go now.. people are showing up at my house.. but I'll be back to rant later... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[RicLyon]

If I may post my opinion here... (seeing if any non citizen here may put agood word : -->:"> )Firstly, the new design rocks. *thumbs up wv* And it looks so much better than the old design. Hey Erik, we can't live in the past. Things need to change. You seem to be hating everything new in the nation. Why are you so conservative? Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

[Ari Rahikkala]

Quote: Jeez, thanks. I spend the whole morning doing up a nice banner and work and all I get out of it is "fuck culture".And then you people wonder why I join Babkha... Culture is dandy. Saying "Hey, we need a culture. Let's draw up some forum graphics / write some stories / give long speeches / run around in circles shouting random crap" isn't. It's not worthy of the word culture. Look it up in a dictionary. No, I'm sorry for not noticing it - you've already done that. Of course you have. We have had so many discussions about the fucking word that we know thirty different true definitions of it and twice as more false ones. I've been guilty of misusing the word myself more times than I can be arsed to count.New forum graphics are also dandy. In fact, I guess some people think they are cool. I prefer to not even see them, but since it is in my power to tell my browser to not show them, I'm fine and so are you. But what is not dandy is linking the creation of forum graphics to some sort of a cultural revolution or a new definition of what Shirerothian culture is. Erik will, I believe, elaborate on this issue later. Saying that not having a definitive culture hurts Shireroth in the long term sounds rather strange to me, being that of all the nations that I know that have a definitive culture, Treesia is the only one that has stayed active for an appreciable time. Trying too hard to have a culture (*) - and calling a new forum background a cultural revolution (well, OK, in Shireroth it *is* a big change, but not a cultural one) is definitely trying too hard - will only result in boredom and eventual death. I'm not sure of what Erik would have said if you hadn't included that first paragraph in your post... but all that I would have done would have been to acknowledge that the background, banner and new topic icon have changed. After all... that's all that really happened.(*) Just look at what Scott and I do with Hyperborea and Straylight. We write a little about our culture, then say that the rest is in our heads and refuse to write too much stuff in too short timeframes. The result? Slow (in the case of Straylight, *very* slow) but very stable advancement of a fantasy culture. As a note that I would add as a footnote if I weren't already in the end of the text, Shireroth is an excellent host for nations of this kind. Not having to bother with foreign affairs but still getting a newbie to look at your stuff every now and then for a loss of sovereignty - which, of course, did not exist to begin with - is a rather nice deal. In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to a Finn.

[Ryan]

Ugh... I hate it when people rant like a goddamn news article. Cause then I gotta go and spend a half hour quoting and answering it. Ah well. I don't have anything else to do. Quote:Culture is dandy. Saying "Hey, we need a culture. Let's draw up some forum graphics / write some stories / give long speeches / run around in circles shouting random crap" isn't. It's not worthy of the word culture. Look it up in a dictionary. No, I'm sorry for not noticing it - you've already done that. Of course you have. We have had so many discussions about the fucking word that we know thirty different true definitions of it and twice as more false ones. I've been guilty of misusing the word myself more times than I can be arsed to count.I'm not a moron. I know it's not culture "per say". But real "culture" does not have the same definition as micronational "culture". The two diverge from the very start and come to conclusions at opposite ends of the spectrum. I'm not saying let's go berszerk and culture-crazy. That's what Bill did in Menelmacar. That's what Treesia did. And what did it do? It exhausted everyone's imaginations before the nations even had a chance to live. Even the "oh-so-uber" FIOJ suffered the same fate, as far as i'm concerned. But, you cannot deny the fact that activity here is far lower than it has been, and below what it could be. I ask myself "What can I do for Shireroth today?". And everyday I get the same answer; nothing! There is nothing for me to work on except aesthetic bullshit in science, that noone even bothers paying attention to. I can't vote in the Landsraad. I'm more active than my Dutchess, whom i'm going to fuckin depose if something doesn't change soon. So what can I do? I love doing artwork, being painting or graphics design. So I can contribute to Shireroth in that respect. But everytime I do, Erik bitches and rants cause he wants it original. Well i'm sick of the fucking original theme, ok?! Shireroth already has a unique culture, it exists around the stories and recwars we've already had. So I draw my creations based on that. What is in the banner that we don't already have? Orcs? We see them all the time. Tauren? I've used them in my stories. Knights? All over the place. Dragons and castles? All over the place too. I'm not ripping shit off, i'm taking what we already have and trying to make it look better.Quote:New forum graphics are also dandy. In fact, I guess some people think they are cool. I prefer to not even see them, but since it is in my power to tell my browser to not show them, I'm fine and so are you. But what is not dandy is linking the creation of forum graphics to some sort of a cultural revolution or a new definition of what Shirerothian culture is. Erik will, I believe, elaborate on this issue later. Saying that not having a definitive culture hurts Shireroth in the long term sounds rather strange to me, being that of all the nations that I know that have a definitive culture, Treesia is the only one that has stayed active for an appreciable time. Trying too hard to have a culture (*) - and calling a new forum background a cultural revolution (well, OK, in Shireroth it *is* a big change, but not a cultural one) is definitely trying too hard - will only result in boredom and eventual death.Not having a definitive culture hurts Shireroth - IN MY OPINION - because people have nothing to draw their imagination upon. Yeah, ok, we're fantasy. But what kind of fantasy? Dragons that can spit nuclear missiles? What is our past? Do we even have a past? Babkha has a cool little fictional pre-history. Why can't we have something like that? We SHOULD have something like that! So maybe it's not a cultural revolution, but we can sure as hell do a lot more for Shireroth than we're doing now. Slow is one thing. Apathetic is another thing entirely. The Landsraad makes the LoSS look like the Need For Speed.Quote:I'm not sure of what Erik would have said if you hadn't included that first paragraph in your post... but all that I would have done would have been to acknowledge that the background, banner and new topic icon have changed. After all... that's all that really happened.That's what I was going to do. Last time I did just that and it got ignored. The word "revolution" seemed to catch his attention this time tho...

[Gryphon the Pure]

first of all, WV, we do not lack definitive culture... and I think that is quite clear now.Second of all, Though the new banner does look mighty cool, iIt is not shireroth. We at least need a separation between the flag and the banner. We should still have the flag at the top, and maybe have a banner with some theme to it... but right now the banner does not flow well. The second image doesn't seem to fit with the other three. And shireroth (I believe) has never been known to have any arctic theme to it... I don't even know if it's ever snowed here...thirdly, please don't make the background image not scroll, it really lags up the page. if you want people to be able to see the whole thing, put some opacity on the forum colours... but right now, it takes me a minute or so longer to scroll to the bottom of any given page than it used to when the background was tiled. Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

Alright, here's my two cents, just because I'm too bored to get into a whole debate about this.What I see is not a cultural revolution... I personally didn't want to mess with Shireroth's culture because I knew that it would end up with me being eaten... What I see here is a simple change in the forum colours/design and IMO it's not supposed to be a whole big thing! If you don't like the new design, say it, propose a better design, do something constructive , but don't go around bitching about the new design interfering with Shirerithian culture... Cause that doesn't really help anything. May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Kaiseress Aure I]

I have reached a near-perfection state with the forums. They stay this way. May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[david northworthy beckfor]

evil tree?evil tree???where is eviltree?I want my evil tree back!!!!!WAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!seriosly....the only thing I remember from my old job as Puritania's foreign minister, was when I can here....I remember prince kieren being threaten for having a "mogle with a gun"? as a avatar, and the evil tree background.doesn't seem the same place with out that tree.......*sobs*need for speed? havn't played that for donkey's years!then again, I was as speedy as a milk float!(for those who live in impoverished nations that dont have milk floats, a milk float is a VERY slow open van for dilivering milk)i do agree with not accosiating to much with a game, otherwise you would get spam from people who play them, and then you will have to bomb them.......which may be fun.... David I Eric Vivian Northorthy Beckford KGCS KL OHDafitt Erick Wiffjan Nurtbefoon Bergsdrumfort"It's a dull man who can only find one way to spell a word"(Mark Twain)My Mission - To be a nuisence to all! (especialy to those I like!)

[UEC]

Quote:'m more active than my Dutchess, whom i'm going to fuckin depose if something doesn't change soonGo for it.. It's the SHirerithian Way... Ok.... I'm at this point extremely angered.. and it's time I just let it out..I'm not pissed so much that some change happens.. or that the graphics are changed a little... I'm pissed that people just say "Change=good always nochange=always bad"... and call me names like "conservative" like it should hurt.. Cause I am conservative when it comes to changing Shireroth.. I founded this fucking nation.... And have run it for the most part of 3+ years or so.. I've seen it change... I've seen it not change.. I KNOW what works.. and what doesn't.. I also have been around Micronations enough to know what kills nations.... And "making" culture kills nations.. that simple. LEtting it evolve... doens't.... We've had this debate before... Many long debates in the past have concluded when you go make alot of changes and do alot at once you burn out the nation like a brightly burning star... Slower development lets a nation SURVIVE!!!!! And I don't know what you people have in mind for Shireroth, but the goal of this nation is.. NOT culture.. it is NOT massive cit count..it is NOOT power.. it is survival. That simple. I could give a rats diseased ass about anything else when it comes to SHireroth. My goal is to keep this nation going. I'de prefer that I could accually leave it on its own and it would do that.. I had hoped It was at that point... I realize you are turning this glorious empire into Menelmacar...again!.. but you, who were in menelmacar, are strangely on the OTHER side this time.. I see a bunch of people coming in and trying to change what the nation is...(now, minus the evil archy and all that corruption, it not part of mypoint...). You want to know what I'm pissed about... I'm not so much pissed as I am afraid for this nation.... I see these changes as the begining of something bigger.. a bigger change.. that I cannot allow to happen... I loaded the forum this afternoon.. saw the changed "unread" images.. to those gold things.. and was like.. hey.. that's new.. I like it.. than saw the background change and flag go missing.. and realize what was happaning... and all this tripe about a "Cultural revolution"... This is NOT Shireroth.. That is Apollo.. not Shireroth.. This is not an Apollo nation for people to "make" culture in and destroy the nation. ok.. I'm just ranting now.. back to points...Micronational culture is crap.. Fuck micronational culture. We don't need it. We need REAL culture.. for we, were..are.. were...are...whichever.. for all intents and purposes a REAL nation.. We have a population, a culture, and a sense of community. Only thing we don't have it real land... If we start empracing.. "micronational culture" as our definition of culture....we are going backwards... We evolved past that already... a while back... And as for.. defineing our culture.. you define a thing... you imprison a thing to stay that way. We define our culture as this this and this.. but not that... we are never going to evolve...You keep saying nice lil catch phrases like.. "If something doesn't change it is doomed to fail" and "Change is good".. and nice lil phrases like that that make you sound like you have a point.... Fuck change! This nation.. DOES NOT need change.... it needs evolution. We've talked about this...Change is NOT evolution.. but Evolution is Change...(that does work...). We don't need to make changes.. let them happen... how often did I when I was Kaiser say "Ok our culture is this this and this... no camels allowed.." or something like that? as far as I know.. never...I know I sound like an ass or something. But all this is true... If you could watch the evolution of Shireroth.... you'de see what I mean...As for not having anything to do... BS.. "I can't vote"... Fine.. you can't vote.. Do somethign else.. something not part of the government. The Government is not the focus of Shireroth. WV.. you wanna make art? THan make it. Doesn't Have to be FOR Shireroth. or about it.. Just make art.. and show it off here. Start an art Gallery? Teach others how to make art.. We have a university you know.. (recalls he has a class to teach....forgot about that)...Look at the band project people.. they had something going there that was quite nice.. We had a number of art contests going for a while... If you aren't happy with your Duke.. over throw her.. if you are more active you'll proly get support to do it.I don't know why the Landsraad is so dead. Maybe we should oust some nobles and put in new ones.. We've done it before.. Oust Fest.... You say as MiniSci you have nothing to do.. Find the MiniInfo a new server. That's Tech..... Look into new things for the site.. that is Tech.. some fun java or something...Do.. TECH things.. (you might start seeing why I kinda phased out MiniSci a while back....)I'm tired of people whining how we need change because there is nothing for people to do.. There is plenty.. Just stop looking only at the government. And expecting people to hand you jobs... HAVE FUN!.. go write a book... start a game or something... make an art gallery...An art contest... Something!Constructive Critisism.. Put the background back to what it was and remove the Banner... it just doesn't look right on the top of our boards.. maybe it has a place on the accual site. Talk to MiniInfo about that. The flag looks better up there.. and has been there since the nations founding...Oh yeah.. the menelmacar thing..!..I got off that. This nation was founded as one thing... and sometime a lil while back found a stable form... one that is mostly still here.. The nation is established as something.. it has a goal.. a culture that it is... (like menelmacar did).. now people are coming in and saying.. "Let's make it better" and removing the old culture for some new one that they make up out of the own minds.. No one was happy when Archy made menelmacar from Elven to Yellow... You are doing something similar.. making it from... ..Shirerithian.. to Apollo.. or something! (mind you I'm not comparing anyone to Archy.. he's just evil.. and no one here is like that.. so don't yell at me for the analogy...)People keep saying I'm just opposing ANYTHING that involves change.. Bull fucking shit!. You people are just branding my a "conservative" and ignoreing me. If you people accaully watched what I've been doing, you'de realize I've accually been trying to alter the nation.. Minting real Cash.... Proposing the official creation of Counts... yadda..yadda... If I didn't want ANY change..I'd oppose our becoming active internationally.. I fully support it. And there are proly a good number of smaller things I cant recall right now. Ok... that's enough for now... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Harvey the Blue]

Quote:There is nothing for me to work on except aesthetic bullshit in science, that noone even bothers paying attention to.I tried to WarVoid, but when I tried to post in ASTRO to give comments and suggestions, I ran into a security problem. Not my fault... I complained about it, but did not bother to see if anyone fixed it since.Erik, I can sum up my reply to your statement in one sentience: NOT EVERYONE IN SHIREROTH LIVES IN CALIFORNIA! Yes, I think it is cool that you are minting coins. Yes, the conference thing at the end of May was a lot of fun. But it is not going to work for everyone. What about WarVoid? What about Aurefiction? What about the other people that cannot make it out there? All your "real life" culture falls flat. We NEED some micronational culture to keep things running, preferably similar to the real life stuff. It must exist!The other day when I was in a chat room and WarVoid was talking about custom smileys, I got jealous. Babkha has their camels. Baracao has their revolutionary troops. Treesia has a whole score of stuff. Jasonia had that little palace icon. Hyperborea had their snowflake and polar bear themes. But what does Shireroth have? Apart from that tired-old Magus-Banana smiley... NOTHING!This needs to change! We need some ways to be distinct! That does not mean we have to "be Bill" (I thank you for being diplomatic enough not to say "be Jason", but I suspect you were thinking it anway) and go overbored because we are bored one night. But we need something... Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[Mikol Rugal]

Erik, it seems to me you're saying two contradictory things. The first is that the government shouldn't be trying to choose a culture for Shireroth, it should spontaneously generate from the actions of individual citizens. The second is that Ryan's choice of forum graphics is bad because it goes against the Shirerithian culture.Forum graphics necessarily have to be of something. You chose to have the forum graphics be of Malarbor the evil tree god because you thought that was a decent representation of Shireroth. Ryan chose to have it be of knights and castles because he thought that was a decent representation of Shireroth. Ryan is not trying to pass a law creating a Shirerithian culture based on WarCraft, he is simply taking what he sees as the culture and using it on the forum. In doing so, he is both taking from the "old" cultural tradition and helping to build a new one.Shireroth is a lot like the United States in that it no longer has a single coherent culture. We Hyperboreans share very few characteristics with, for example, the Yardistani, and neither share much with the Goldshirerithians or Straylighters. The fully national culture that we have is more a series of tidbits - like mangos and annexation corps- rather than a coherent theme in the sense that Baracao is tropical communists, Babkha is monarchist Persians, and Archimacar is banana-loving telepathic schizophrenic elves in denial. The things that do link us together - like a sense of humor and belonging to the same community - are strong, but they're not the sort of things that can be symbolized very easily. And there's the rub. When we make culture, it's not part of something coherent so that we can tell outsiders who ask "Who are you?" something like "Oh, we're exactly like Russia, only a micronation" or "We're a tribe of desert warriors". Any attempt to represent us macronationally/realistically, in the sense that Babkhans can represent themselves by domed mosques and a desert, Baracaoans by missions and palm trees, or Hyperboreans by spiral towers and ice fields, is doomed to fail. And that's why Ryan had to sort of pull something together for a background. I think he made a good choice, since many of the names are German, since there's a neo-Gothic overtone to a lot of stuff, and since many of us are fascinated with the Middle Ages. I wouldn't want to encourage any more of that kind of stuff, or declare Shireroth's culture to be that officially, but as something we have to stare at for a forum background, it's as good or better than anything else."Every time I hear the word 'culture', I reach for my gun" - Herman Goering

[UEC]

I'm just pissed cuase it seems like people are trying to dictate what our culture is. I'm fine with getting some stuff that makes us distinctive like Harvey was say.. but It feels to me people area going in reverse... making shireroth to match a "culture". It should be making things to match Shireroth... I guess I just don't feel people are doing that.. Harvey, I didn't accually mean you.. I meant bill.... you never seemed to do any making culture stuff that caught my attention in a bad way like Bill did.. Maybe he was just pushy with it..I don't know...BAH.. I suck at argueing. I just come out contradicting myself.. its so annoying... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Quote: So maybe it's not a cultural revolution, but we can sure as hell do a lot more for Shireroth than we're doing now.Good, my arguments were understood... Quote: I'm not so much pissed as I am afraid for this nation.... I see these changes as the begining of something bigger.. a bigger change.. that I cannot allow to happen... I loaded the forum this afternoon.. saw the changed "unread" images.. to those gold things.. and was like.. hey.. that's new.. I like it.. than saw the background change and flag go missing.. and realize what was happaning... and all this tripe about a "Cultural revolution"... This is NOT Shireroth.. That is Apollo.. not Shireroth.. This is not an Apollo nation for people to "make" culture in and destroy the nation.I was trying to form this argument myself when I noticed that it's a good example of the logical fallacy called the Slippery Slope. It has not been demonstrated that enforced monoculturalism, pretension and all the negative aspects of Apollonianism will necessarily follow from a change of forum graphics. Now, talk of cultural revolutions is definitely unhealthy, but WV has already retracted it...Quote: Erik, I can sum up my reply to your statement in one sentence: NOT EVERYONE IN SHIREROTH LIVES IN CALIFORNIA! Yes, I think it is cool that you are minting coins. Yes, the conference thing at the end of May was a lot of fun. But it is not going to work for everyone. What about WarVoid? What about Aurefiction? What about the other people that cannot make it out there? All your "real life" culture falls flat. We NEED some micronational culture to keep things running, preferably similar to the real life stuff. It must exist!I think you've misunderstood Erik. Real culture and real-life culture are different things. You can have a LARP community that meets every Saturday to whack people with wooden swords. That's real-life and fantasy. Similarly, a role-playing community that meets every Saturday to tell people "I whack you with a sword" on AIM or click on a computer screen to see a character whacking another with a sword, are online and fantasy. The nature of real real-life culture is known to all of us - if it isn't, just look it up in a dictionary. Real micronational culture is kind of what would form if you took a bunch of weirdos like us from all around the world and threw them on some inhabited planet with a large pile of supplies and stuff (including something for keeping in contact with the Earth - none of us spend all of our time in micronations...). Real micronational culture contains (but is not limited to) a sense of community, common traditions (perhaps religions), and an identifiable population. BTW...Quote:Micronational culture is crap.. Fuck micronational culture. We don't need it. We need REAL culture.. for we, were..are.. were...are...whichever.. for all intents and purposes a REAL nation.. We have a population, a culture, and a sense of community. Only thing we don't have it real land... This is exactly the same argument as Archetype once made in a speech at Menelmacar. Well, except that he centered mostly on flinging mud at old Menelmacar and trying to justify the existence of his nation... but it's still the same argument. If you guys haven't understood what Erik's trying to say yet, digging that speech up might be useful... In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to a Finn.

[UEC]

umm.. yes....It's just I've been trying to move this nation away from the fake and fantasy of many micronations and "micronational culture".. and make it more.. real. Not so much in the Real World sense.. but he realworld sense.. online... Not made up stories passed off as real history.. but real history. And stories written as liturature... All the fantasy stuff we do... I see has part of our real culture in the sense of it's something we all like to do, and enjoy, but it's not necessarily what the nation is. Like a sport or a shared hobby of the nation...As for Harvey comment to me about not everyone being in CA.. I know this... But I have to start somewhere.... I can't just go.. BOOM everyone have some coins!.. I need to make them... and then find a way to get them to people.. I know people live outside the state of California.. and I've been trying to find ways to solve that problem.. Maybe as we get older, it'll become easier. I don't know... but since I joined micronations it has gotten easier to interact personally with people I don't live near.. I've met Scott twice... Harvey once... talk to them both on the phone on at least 1 random occasion.. I tried to contact Stejpan once... ect... anyhoo..Maybe this forum thing just set off other issues that have been bothering me.. (Though I still don't like the changes....maybe for a background we can find a real picture of "some dark forest in germany" (-scott)... Surely Google must have something nice and dark that will be like the old one.. but.. better...and I want the flag back...)So I'm sorry I'm so pissy... But yeah.. No cultural Revolutions.. that would be bad..... WV.. no more shock tactics.. or whatever you were going for.. please... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[UEC]

OH... WV.. leave the buttons alone.. I worked hard on those long ago.. and I still rather like them... So leave them alone....And it wasn't an orc.. technically it was a troll...I think... from a wallpaper on their site back during the 7th republic. It's not 4 years old.. it's 2 maybe...3... I haven't even been in micronations 4 years yet... 4 years in the late fall though..woot.heh E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Mari Greenwood]

Interesting.But what is this sudden drive to move away from fantasy and make things supposedly more real? More serious? Ha Ha! Micronations should be fun. Of course this is my opinion. Otherwise we would all be running our actually nations that we live in and sitting in on boring senate or assembly meetings? The fantasy element in Shireroth is part of what makes it an interesting nation for me. Of course this is just my opinion. If everyone really wants to just make this a political simulation we can spend our time overthrowing the government and rewriting the laws and be oh so serious about it? "May The Hasha Be With You!"

[Ari Rahikkala]

Ehm... sudden drive away from fantasy?Quote:Otherwise we would all be running our actually nations that we live in and sitting in on boring senate or assembly meetings?If we did, I can tell that there's not a single Shirithian who would stay around for long. And I can also tell that although fantasy has always been quite an important part of Shireroth, it's not The One Thing That Makes Shireroth Fun For Everyone Involved... since TOTTMSFFEI does not exist. Yet we are here, and Shireroth is one hell of a stable nation. Maybe, just maybe, it hints about the fact that there's more to micronations than fantasy and political simulation? In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to a Finn.

[UEC]

I said nothing about making it a political simulation.. That the opposite of what I want..THe byproduct? Some of it just got removed......That filling.. you speak of.. is uder bullshit. Just made up crap... If you want a culture as a byproduct of what is here, (which is what my point all along was..).. than you can't just write a "culture" up.. or a fake history or something.. and make new graphics... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Harvey the Blue]

Quote:This is exactly the same argument as Archetype once made in a speech at Menelmacar. Well, except that he centered mostly on flinging mud at old Menelmacar and trying to justify the existence of his nation... but it's still the same argument. If you guys haven't understood what Erik's trying to say yet, digging that speech up might be useful... I caught the similiarity almost immediately. I think it is crap now, and I thougt it was crap when Archetype said it before. And NO, I did not just think it was crap simply because Archtype was the one that said it (although that usually makes a convinent excuse )The whole "real culture" thing that Archetype was talking about is absurd. I am friends with practically everyone here. We have a few inside jokes and some old memories. But that is not culture! That is just... me being friends with everyone here. Culture is the filling between all that... the flags and the symbols and the slogans that represent this kind of friendship. Culture is the stuff that represents what makes us different from any other group.I admit that I am feeling the loss of that right now. Shireroth looks kind of culturally sterile to me when compared to almost every other nation. We have a long history, but where are the byproducts of it?Quote:Maybe, just maybe, it hints about the fact that there's more to micronations than fantasy and political simulation?Stars man, you are going to scare people by saying things like that! The world is not ready for that one yet... pretty close, but not quite. Edited by: Harvey the Blue  at: 8/10/03 1:10 am

[Kaiseress Aure I]

*is rather happy* You know, that's why I love time zones. I slept through the whole rage and fury debate and am now back on here when everybody has cooled down. May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Zirandorthel]

Just a little comment I saw that I want to straighten out..Quote:That's what Treesia did.This was not my doing. I just wanted a medieval-themed micronation. It was you two (points to Harvey and Warvoid) who came along with dragons and wizards and stuff...Then, of course, I was quite happy to get dragged along, but just remember that you weren't all the oh-so-calm-and-collected sonofaguns you claim to be today.Btw, that wasn't an orc, it was the Keeper of the Grove from W3. ZirandorthelThe Golden Darkness"In order to find his equal, an Irishman is forced to talk to God."-Stephen Braveheart Proud Citizen of Pyramodia