Countries And Relations

[Scott Alexander]

Okay, I'm considering a few countries to try and open relations with, and I want everyone's thoughts on whether they're good or bad:1. Cranda. They seem to be very similar to us in that they're a medium sized country of generally nice and friendly people who know one another well and are more concerned with having fun than any sort of stuffedupness or agenda. On the other hand, I know there's still some bitterness against them here, and they ARE awful at recwars.2. Tulsa. Everyone loves King Charles, and even more people than that love the Igloo of Iguanas, and they're new but have a lot of promise. On the other hand, are they maybe a slightly different paradigm than we?3. Novikraznolongnamecommieland: They're big, they're growing fast, they've got a lot of new people. On the other hand, they're definitely a different paradigm than we, they have a stupid name, and they're godless Communist pigs. So, please vote in the poll. We should recognize:CrandaTuslaNovikraznolongnamecommielandNone of the AboveMore than one of the above (please post with which)Show results

[Aurefiction]

Could I just kindly remind you that we DO have a polling station where polls such as this one are supposed to be cast.Of course I might be wrong... "Never let sense conquer nonesense"-- Quixy the god of Madness.

[Scott Alexander]

Could I kindly remind you that I MADE that polling station and know how it is meant to be used?This isn't just a random straw poll, this was originally supposed to be an nationwide discussion of foreign relations - in fact, I originally made it as a post and then switched it to poll format because that would provide an easy way of judging results. I want peoples' opinions on this, possibly involving stimulation of activity.

[Ryan]

What is this "Kingdom of Tusla"? I have never heard of a "Tusla". :p :DEh, as just a foreigner that used to be a foreign minister... I say recognise em all. Better to be friends than enemies. That and Belci is cool... Chuck is cool... And Nico is cool... So, yeah, recognise em all...Hmmm, I know wayyyyy too many people....

[Aurefiction]

Sorry. My bad. Won't do it again. Sorry again...*is actually going rather pink in the face right now* "Never let sense conquer nonesense"-- Quixy the god of Madness.

[Shyriath]

I also say recognize them all. The first seems decent; the second's link didn't work when I tried it but, as was said, everyone loves King Charles; and as for the third, I myself was once a mild brand of godless Communist pig, and have sympathy for the Novikraznywhosits. Although, yes, the name sucks... and they had rather bad taste in labelling one of their forums "The Gulag".Note: For those who are wondering what I now am instead of a mild godless Communist pig... well, I dunno, I suppose I'll have to get back to you.

[Harvey the Blue]

Tulsa then Cranda then commies. Maybe no commies. *shrug* Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[Ryan]

*roots for the commies*Power to the people!Sorry... I could'nt help myself...

[Scott Alexander]

The aforementioned people are apparently trying to use the aforementioned power to support Bobby's Skyline takeover...or something...my theoretical foreign minister objectivity and my personal bias are fighting here...eh, I'll work on the other two first and then check back to see which one won out.Thanks for the suggestions.

[Ryan]

Eh... There are good commies and there are bad commies... Don't typecast em ALL as bad...But if they do support Politika. THEN I SAY WE NUKE EM!!!

[Shyriath]

Now, now, now. Nuclear weapons are, after all, terrible devices. Cruel and unusual punishment, writ large. A crime against humanity!No, I say we invent some laser guns, bust into their headquarters or whatever they have, and send them crawling on hands and knees to their puppet-masters and beg them to give the Skyline back before we start blasting holes in everything! MuhahahahaHAHAHAAAAAH!*Calms himself down, and goes to take to take his medicine before speaking on foreign relations issues again*

[Scott Alexander]

I like some commies...the Baracaoans are cool....and I like Nico....but commies are fun to make fun of....because they're so evil....and Novikranzolongnamecommieland is so commie that it's boring.

[Mattlore Devious]

Cranda then Commies then Tulsa

[Mari Greenwood]

I find the question of recognition and interesting one. Because even if you refuse to recognize a nation there is a good chance it will go on fine without your blessings.The question should perhaps be which nations do we really want to establish postive and fruitful relations with?

[Ryan]

Nico's nation is funny. Especially so cause they stole my graphics from my old newspaper, the Proletarian Times.

[Harvey the Blue]

Exactly Mari.I say Tulsa first, because I know King Charles there and liked Tulsa the first time around, although I never really got the courage to be vocal over there until it was too late.Cranda seems okay. Belci jumps between my "good" and "bad" lists almost weekly, but the rest of the country seems fine enough.The commies annoy me. Nico seems to dislike Apollos, and Shireroth is... (looks at the Kaiser) erm, not an Apollo nation, but could be mistaken as one. If Scott can patch that thing up, then we could do something with those guys, but I think it is a low priority. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial StarEdited by: Harvey the Blue  at: 6/26/03 2:21 pm

[Scott Alexander]

Okay, Tulsa seems to be just setting up, so I'm going to give them a day or two before we barge in and ask about relations. I've already talked to the Crandans and they seem very interested. Commies are still on hold due to possible evilness.What does everyone think about Xantari? Since everything is but an apparition, having nothing to do with good or bad, acceptance or rejection, one may well burst out in laughter. - Longchenpa

[Rakesh86]

*Cough* Better relations with Babkha *Cough*

[Harvey the Blue]

I thought Babkha had written us of as being too... ummm... not Babkha. Well whatever. Scott will check that out too.Xantari looks interesting, if a bit empty now. They need time to set up too. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[Scott Alexander]

Better relations in what sense? We have recognition, what other directions would you like to go in? And what about Bahram? Won't he be against any relations with Shireroth just like he's against basically everything else?

[Rakesh86]

Bahram has sadly resigned from public life in the Kingdom and will be serving Babkha in a private advisory role. Do you believe recongition is enough? Shireroth and Babkha are among the older micronations still "kicking" and we should affirm our friendship and future cooperation in a Treaty or Declaration.

[Fidel Nico]

Fine then!*begins writing Iron Curtain Act*Your forcing us to be evil!And "mild-commie"?! Bah! A Commie is a Commie is a Commie -except El Dorni who is a deluded child who needs drink, drugs and women! *drools*Yes I know the site is rather cliqued, yes I know gulag is in bad taste (thats why I like it), and yes I know you don't like commies! I just have a thing for soviet Russia in the 1930's - its the deranged and deluded and frankly horrible country that it was with such great propaganda posters.We have called off discussions with Politika after their actions - In the Cabinet anyway. Koba, is well, good old Koba, and his actions are as he pleases.However with continuing deragotory comments - time for the boring cliques - we reaffirm our belief that you can't work with capitalist pig dogs anyway. ;)Chill People! *Goes back to compiling list of evil foreign capitalists - check siskind* Comrade Fidel NicoCitizen of NoviykrazniystanRepublic of Noviykrazniystan

[Aurefiction]

Just on a side-note, can't help myself...Russian Communism was only bad in during Stalin's rule... (I'm Russian btw). After he died it wasn't that bad, immensely buraucratic, but aren't all states? I'm not a Commie, just saying that people are often prejudice towards that regime. On the whole the idea is great, of course in practice on a large scale it never works. However, even though the governmental system in the USSR sucked, an average person was happy: there was no unemploynment, we had the best education and helthcare, and if you ask my grandma, she thinks it was all great. "Never let sense conquer nonesense"-- Quixy the god of Madness.

[Scott Alexander]

All right, fine, once the commies get a foreign policy I'll give them a look too. Rakesh, in the absence of Abbas, who is the Babkhan Foreign Vizier?

[Ryan]

Wow! Aure just showed up Scott!BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA*ahem*Anyhoo, I agree with that thought. Stalin utterly destroyed Communism's PR record on a global scale. Everyone was quite happy with Lenin and his government up until he died and Iosef took over. I'm not a vehement communist, I don't support Marxist theory that a revolution is required to make changes to an existing government. That was 1912 theory. This is 2003. It simply doesn't apply anymore. The Communist Manifesto needs a modern revision made to it. The basic premise of communism - the community is the government - is what I believe in. The needs of the people should always take priority over the needs of the bureaucracy.

[Emir of Raspur]

Scott, Rakesh is the Deputy Foreign Affairs Vizier

[Aurefiction]

Hehe yeah, I tend to show up in the weirdest places with the weirdest things to say.Lenin's government wasn't even Marxism OR Communism, it was what he called Bolshevism which was inspired by the ideas of Karl Marx. That's what I know anyway, I might be wrong of course. Then I fully agree that the principles of the early 1900's when the Bolshevik revolution occured or the principles of the mid 1800's (when Marx was writing) cannot be applied to moredn society... A revolution was essencial in Russia at the time because the Tzar's government was just unable to maintain ANY stability within the country, not even talking about foreign affair. Though I must say I believe that it shouldn't have been so brutal, a few radical constitutional reforms would do good. There's nothing wrong with monarchy, it's just that it should be always moving and developping while the Russian government was stagent for many centuries.I just think that the fact that Communism failed so miserably on the large scale in the USSR shouldn't mean that it's wrong in the root. The theory is great, but unfortunately due to the human nature it just cannot possibly work in practice... "Animal Farm" wonderfully expresses that. "Never let sense conquer nonesense"-- Quixy the god of Madness.

[Ryan]

I never did get to read Animal Farm. Though I love 1984 and read it a lot.I agree with you about the brutality. But it can't be placed entirely on the shoulders of the Reds. Just look at the atamanschina that occured in the Far East Republic (around Chita and Khabarovsk). Those guys were Cossacks - the Russian equivalent of knights - that were raping, looting and razing cities and villages all over. And it didn't stop until the Red Army moved in.But then the Red Army did equally ungratifying things. Like killing Enver Pasha in Turkestan and annexing the Uzbek Khanate, which had just declared independence from the Whites. So much for a free society.Like you said, as much as communism might sound like the utopian society, human nature prevents us from ever achieving it... Unfortunately...

[Stone Jackabar]

*sits down with a root beer*wow, a political conversation that is staying a resptable debate.....i love not being in menelmachar YAY!!! we're doooomed!!!!!!

[Aurefiction]

I strongly suggest you read Animal Farm. It's a great book and it has a great way of expressing historical events... I mean you probably know the story, it's pretty well known, but I really think you should read it.The Russian society at the turn of the century was generally a wreck. People hated the tzarist regime, and so by the time there was an actual revolution, a revolution was inevidable (sp?)... Your definition of Cossaks is funny!! My great-grand-dad was a Cossack and here's what they were: free peasants who during the Socialst Revolution became soldiers on the side of the whites. Weird thing is that my great-grandma was a daughter of one of the notable revolutionairies... Heh..Basically what I think about the october revolution is that neither the whites OR the reds were absolutely right... Actually in this case they both were absolutely not right but anyhow. This is how most things in life are... There's no good or bad, right or wrong... Things just happen.Anyway. I think that's enough about russian communism... SO off-topic o.o "Never let sense conquer nonesense"-- Quixy the god of Madness.