thought about stuff.....

[david northworthy beckfor]

Like Erik said about the institutions of Shireroth.."It's all about duality. On every Level."This brings Duality to the Landsraad.The Barons can vote something in, and the dukes can vote something in. If the dukes are LOAed, an act can pass. if the Barons are LOAed, the dukes can pass the act.What this also means is that a Dukes can say "stupid commie barons! that act r teh suck!" and they then claim the vote in the name of the Dukes, and the dukes decide wether to pass it.Also, the idea of making Barons get sponcership before getting into the landsraad means....under the old system where everyone is appointed, it is possible that only conservitives get in.under the current system, entire radical duchies can form and take over thge landsraad. Under my suggestion, radical barronies can form, but conservitive duchies can moderate them.ok, next post, is about landsraad access.....

[david northworthy beckfor]

Ok, people are split into 3 groups, exactly as they are now... Higher Nobles (Dukes)Lesser Nobles (Barons)Non-Nobles and Land Holders (Counts)Non-Nobles just as it is now, get no landsraad access.Lesser-Nobles, get a voice in the landsraad.they include...voting lesser nobles (Barons) and Observing Lesser Nobles (spouse of a baron, ruler of a semi autonomouse region..they get no vote)Higher-Nobles get a single vote when a vote is taken over byt the higher noblesThe are...the Dukes and the Lord of Shirekeep (that is, the Kaiser) these can make Barons. Also in the Higher Nobility is people that the Kaiser want's to award a vote as a higher Noble, but without the power to make an army of voting barons. in other words, a spouse of a Higher Noble, maybe Brrapa Lu Eraro (who is not erik, no, everyone knows that ) or what ever

[david northworthy beckfor]

how about...baronies are done as they are now...that is, Land owners come together to gain power.Dukes are appointed by the Kaiser.A barony can be started without authorisation from the dukes or kaiser, but if they do, they get no vote. To get a place in the landsraad, a Duke, or the Kaiser has to go to the preator and say "Baron so-and-so is My Baron. Give him his voice", and, hey presto, the baron gets a place in the landsraad, and is under a duchy or under the Kaiser. The Higher Noble who sponsered them can take away the speaking ability at any point.ok, so what about votes?Only Barons vote (don't worry dukes, your bit is coming up)Each Baron get's one vote, plus one for each count...No quorums.Optional debate period of two days. If not taken, debate occurs concurrently with voting.Voting lasts four days, and ends at a set time.(possibly other timed democracy rules...maybe..doesn't matter)At any time, a Higher Noble (i.e, a duke or the Kaiser) can say "I claim the floor in the name of the Higher Nobles", and thus the vote is taken from the Barons, and only the higher nobles vote. 1 Duke = 1 Vote.A simple majority passes the bill.Ok, the next post explains the point of this.

[UEC]

This is basicly just what I posted.... E. Metzler (UEC)Count of Monty CriscoFounder of the MCS"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSJoin Shireroth

[AngelGuardian93]

can your proposed higher nobility claim the vote for every baron, or just the barons under them? There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[david northworthy beckfor]

not reallyyou post is what inspirered this, and it is your stuff, but with a few changes...1 - baronies can exist outside duchies (but need a duck if they want to vote)2 - dukes and barons dont vote together...either the barons vote on an act, or the duke claim the vote and do it themselves.2a - thus allows for moderation, and allows acts to be passed if there even if not many members of a class are around.3 - gives provision for a neater way of dealing with spouses and co barons4 - gives provision for the kaiser to give someone power without making them a duke

[TonerMan]

I see problems with this, in that barons would still need to be under a duke.. all you did make it so the can be independent under the kaiser, and make a TRUE split in the Landsraad, in that Dukes can take a vote out of the hands of barons. And by having baronies independent it breaks from the Feudal Hiarchy which the current system does too, and stills leaves the major flaws in the system that I had meant to undo, also, it means that a Duke could be duke of no one.We seem to have centered the subdivisions around populations and votes. And not around land. Holy Warrior of NeeCommanding General of the Y.A.C.

[david northworthy beckfor]

*points at the purpose of lichtenstien**also points at county platinethingies*in real history you always had people being under people who werent in the imediate upper level

[TonerMan]

Yes, but why can't we try to keep things orderly? Holy Warrior of NeeCommanding General of the Y.A.C.