Proposal - Landsraad Abstain Procedure

[Sebastien Alexandre]

I propose, that, seeing as many bills require a percentage of citizens approval to be revised, and seeing as how abstains currently count as nays, that abstains be counted as just that, merely a record saying you did not vote yes or no, but merely made your presence known that you were indeed being active and keeping up with things.If this proposal passes, I will write up a bill.May the floor be open to debate.((I also note i cannot vote yet until Renee gives me my votes)) Edited by: OzarkaMons01 at: 8/7/05 1:36

[Gryphon the Pure]

I object.I think it is reasonable that if there are more people apathetic about a bill than would like to see it passed, it should not pass.I think the reasonable change would be to simply change the procedure to require votes in favour to achieve a plurality rather than a majority. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

[Fax Celestis]

I move that since an abstain is essentially the same thing as a nay that the abstain be abolished. And who would have thought that my fate, it would conjure this twist in the road on which I have wandered?Each vision and dream now completely dismembered, to give one's whole life and find nothing's remembered...And what good is a life that leaves nothing behind? Not a thought or a dream that might echo in time

[Sebastien Alexandre]

I will second Fax's suggestion.

[Fax Celestis]

...of course, we already DID that, and it got overturned. And who would have thought that my fate, it would conjure this twist in the road on which I have wandered?Each vision and dream now completely dismembered, to give one's whole life and find nothing's remembered...And what good is a life that leaves nothing behind? Not a thought or a dream that might echo in time

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Well.. when Hypatia gives me my Landsraad votes we'll see what we can do, eh Fax?

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Yes, Oz, I get the hint. I'll give you a couple later. You can still cast 0 votes as a matter of stating your opinion, as Joe does.I agree with Joe's plurality idea, rather than requiring the majority (in which case abstentions become de facto nays, even if we removed the actual abstain = nay law).I have looked at the procedures (which are still on my computer, safe and formatted), and here is the section on voting (pertinent parts bolded).Quote:Section B: Voting Procedure for Standard Bills&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Clause 1. A standard bill shall be on the voting floor for four (4) days. The Prætor may extend a standard bill to seven (7) days if and only if he or she believes that nobles with an active interest in it have not gotten a chance to vote, and that these nobles could significantly impact the outcome. He or she may do this at any point within seven days of the vote having been brought to the floor. When a bill has exhausted its respective time limit, the Pr‘tor shall declare the vote passed or failed based upon the votes it has received, close it, and archive it. If the Pr‘tor fails to do so, the vote is nevertheless considered unofficially closed.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Clause 2. Standard bills and acts submitted to the Landsraad shall be voted on by single "Aye", "Nay" or "Abstain" vote, or any other response that clearly states a noble's position and vote. A vote of "Abstain" shall count toward quorum. Nobles may not vote on parts of a bill or act; they must vote upon the bill as a whole. Each noble's vote shall be weighted according to the vote distribution as allotted in Chapter IV, Section B of the Imperial Decreebook.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Clause 3. Standard bills and acts may not be modified in any way after votes regarding its passage have been cast, except to fix errors in grammar or spelling.&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Clause 4. In order for a standard bill or act to be considered passed, one half (1/2) of all votes distributed to the Nobles must be cast in the affirmative or both one half (1/2) of all nobles eligible to vote must have cast their votes, and one half (1/2) of all votes cast must be in the affirmative. Any bill which fails to meet these requirements shall not be passed. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[osmose1000]

Didn't we do something like making abstains count towards quorum but required only a majority over nays and not over total votes cast or something?I mean, isn't that the whole point of an abstain? Signifying that you have read the debate and have either not come to a decision or decided that you don't care either way? They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...Edited by: osmose1000 at: 8/8/05 6:54

[Hypatia Agnesi]

I think we did, but while Eoin was Praetor, I don't think he managed to edit in all of the bills that were passed. We'll have to start fixing things as we find them again, this being one of them. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Without objections, this thread will be moved to the Front Gate tomorrow so as not to clutter up the floor of the Landsraad. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!