Shireroth

Hmm, Despite having incurred the wrath of Jonas, I don't know if that's such a good idea. I mean, The Landsraad is one of the only orderly forums in the empire. If we let more people speak, votes will be confused.

And yet when the barons were permitted to speak, they sometimes came up with ideas the dukes didn't think of. Having more perspectives, from more than one level of the hierarchy, gives a broader view of many proposals.

Which is part of why Benkern made the Diet of Yardistan, so he'd get his Barons opinions before he voted on something important.

hypatias mom wrote:And yet when the barons were permitted to speak, they sometimes came up with ideas the dukes didn't think of. Having more perspectives, from more than one level of the hierarchy, gives a broader view of many proposals.

Any why can the Barons not express their ideas and opinions here like they always have?

Actually, up until a couple months ago we talked in the Landsraad where we "always had"

*shrug* But apparently the Landsraad said otherwise, no?

And your "always had" maybe a bit limited (as is mine, admittedly).

the first Landsraad had no barons at all (they didn't exist/were really new)... the second gave them all half a vote... the third gave them part of the 10 votes each duchy got, the fourth was new feudalism. the fifth was no votes for barons... now we are back under that they doesn't even get to go into the Landsraad.

Thus ends the history lesson.

I joined when the barons had a voice and a partial vote in the Landsraad. I realize some dukes may feel this is purely their personal deliberative body, and all others must keep out and keep silent, but I was privy to, and participant in, many stirring deliberative discussions which made important contributions to the members' understanding and to the breadth and throroughness of passed legislation. I think it would be a benefit to organize this body on this model again. I found it the most interesting and stirring time of my citizenship here.

While I realize it is a virtue to be able to have a clear time of voting on a proposal, there is also much to be said for the last-minute-recalled amendment or argument which could improve or perhaps even eliminate the expected outcome. I think giving the barons a part of their duke's 10 votes makes a great deal of sense, and gives them more of a stake in the continued building up of Shireroth. This way, there is a true sharing (if only on a limited basis) of decision-making power, with the majority vote always remaining with the duke.

I realize this is totally different than the currently-proposed erb-based system but, frankly, I feel this is actually more straight-forward and honest in its approach than to get people to gang to gether using money rather than persuasion.

Well, it's what the dukes are using now....It does have it's merits.. People need some incentive to earn money. That incentive is power in the Landsraad for their duchy.