Our Kaiser ... ruler of Babkha?

[Andreas the Wise]

Fellow Shirithians, I bring ... news. I cannot say for sure whether it is good or evil, I can merely speak my mind.
The front page of the INS is today splattered with the news of chaos in our allies in Babkha.
Ardy has declared their current Shah too inactive and asked Hesam to accept the throne ... while remaining only Shirithian. Hesam has tentatively accepted, but has yet to discuss it with us Shirithians, hence I bring it forward - is it appropriate for our Kaiser, Hasan, to also be the Shah of Babkha?

Personally, I have my doubts on this. Our Kaiser has not been immensely active here of late, because he has RL things to attend to. I mean this as no discredit to his Niftiness, but we are still waiting for that banking law. I believe his time would be better spent fully devoted to Shireroth than to Shireroth and Babkha, though I will respect his choice and the will of the Landsraad in this.

Secondly, a minor concern ... is the Shah the head of state in Babkha? If so ... then he has no choice but to refuse the position, because accepting it would mean that the MCS would have to have us both in the same colour - combine the nations, and that would almost certainly violate the 1/3 of the map rule ...
I do not have any real knowledge of Babkhan workings so I can't say whether the Shah is actually the head of state of the Grand Vizier is ...

Finally, do we have anything to say on the oppression of our own Benkern?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Andreas, I am discussing this with Erik first. I have "tentatively" accepted following my discussion with him and Shireroth as a whole. Since this is primarily an issue concerning me, I had hoped that I would be the one to bring it up.

[Andreas the Wise]

If you would prefer, I'll edit out my post then ... but it is all over the news ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

What is reported in INS is not an accurate portrayal of events. These are the facts:

1. Ardashir suggested it.

2. The vast majority of Babkha supported the idea.

3. Benkern opposed it.

4. People without authority to arrest each other, began doing so due to personal issues not related to this issue.

5. I am not involving myself in the politics at this time. I made my intent clear for the Babkhan aspect of things under the condition that I would be able to discuss it with Shireroth first.

6. I have yet to hear back from Erik.

And most importantly, I have yet to complete a lot of work in Shireroth, I am not going anywhere until those initiatives are finished. This was an opportunity presented to me, not a confirmation.

Also, I was under the impression that two nations would be coloured the same when the head of state is the same for two or more nations, not for the person that holds that. Even if I did accept, both titles remain seperate, as do both nations.

[Andreas the Wise]

Thankyou for clearing that up, My Kaiser. I merely wish to comment on the last bit ... the MCS may not see it that way. For example, Jeremy was leader of Vanderveer, and became leader of New Brittania again, and was forced to join both nations on the map. I think the MCS do take it was the individual person ...

[Jacobus Loki]

Edited.

This is astonishing.

There is a way to solve this. If Babkha has gone so inactive that such drastic measures must be employed, I respectfully suggest the Duchy (or Protectorate) of Babkha, over which the Kaiser of Shireroth would naturally be the Head of State, as it would be part of Shireroth.

Beyond that, our something along those lines, I must stand opposed to such a situation. A union of thrones as suggested is not acceptable to Yardistan.

[Andreas the Wise]

This is more the reaction I expected. I'll remind everyone, however, that the Kaiser didn't want this public until he'd consulted the High Priest (sorry, my bad, journalists these days) and that in the thread mentioned, he stated:

Alright, since there is near consent on this, I tentatively accept. However I will wait until I hear back from Shireroth on their position.

I'm not sure quite such drastic action as taken in Imperial Decree 282 is necessary, but I understand the motivations.

[Jacobus Loki]

It is intended as a precaution. We cannot go down the path of Scotland when James VI moved to London.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Long live the Shiro-Babkhan Empire!

[Ari Rahikkala]

I'm having some trouble finding the relevant MCS policies here... specifically the 1/3 rule and, more importantly, the "same head of state equals same colour" ones. Also, could someone point out where the matter of forcing Vanderveer and New Brittania to join on the map was discussed?

The reason why I'm asking is that, quite honestly, I can't believe the MCS would enforce that policy against a pair of nations older than the Society itself. Forget the Culture Council, trying to join us under one colour on the map really *would* be an insult against our sovereignty - one profane enough that I just don't think they're foolhardy enough to do it. If it is unclear to the MCS that Shireroth and Babkha are independent nations, well, I'm sure we well find a way to *make* it clear.

[Jonas]

Babkha... a Duchy...

Interesting, but can it happen? It could make our countries, combined, stronger and larger then each other nation.
Besides they can hold their titles, governement system,... but would they give up independence?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Well, if I were to become Shah and retain my Thrown as Kaiser, The two realms would have only as much interaction as they so choose to have. Canada and Britain are not a single country just because they both recognize ER II as Head of State.

Conversely, it could also function as an Austro-Hungarian model where there are two Kingdoms represented by one Sovereign.

The point is that there is no need or intent to merge or suffer loss of sovereignty. Conflicts of policy would likely be moderated by me but solved by each state respectively.

[Jonas]

We aren't Britain, either we are Canada.
If I look to Babhka not everyone is supporting this ( http://www.babkha.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=57153# ).
Yes, maybe the majority does. But is it legal?

Before you, Your Niftinnes, think about becomming head of state of both nations their must be a legal background.
This looks like an exterior coup d'état.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Well since Shireroth is my only citizenship and as I am its Kaiser, if anything this would mean The Kaiser of Shireroth is gaining an additional Kingdom.

[Jonas]

I'm sorry, wrong place to post.

[Jacobus Loki]

Ruiling a nation shows allegiance of some sort. The Kaiser must not have allegiance to any nation besides Shireroth. Shirerithian law must hold in Shireroth. Babkha may do as Babkha likes.

The only way for this to be legal in Shireroth is for Babkha to become part of Shireroth, with Duke Hasan taking his seat in the Landsraad. All of the semantics to the contrary is bushwa.

If this is allowed to occur, then all Shirirthian citizenship law is unenforceable.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

is that a self identifying statement or a comment directed toward me?

[Jacobus Loki]

Huh?

It's nothing personal. I admire grasping ambition as much as the next fan of the YAC.

But the law is the law.

My MSN IM is on.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

At work currently, if you're on in two hours I'll be able to chat at that time.

[Jacobus Loki]

I'm at work, as well. for about 5 - 7 hours. But it is my company.
I will leave it functional.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Excellent, we'll speak then.

Regarding my commentllow me to explain:

"wrong place to post"

Was this meant to say I am posting in the wrong place, or that Jonas posted in the wrong place?

[Jonas]

Was this meant to say I am posting in the wrong place, or that Jonas posted in the wrong place?

I meant I posted on the wrong place

[H4773r 3lfs0n]

well, as i said in the Kaiser's Court, I will resist a dual ruler and an affiliation with two nations . .

BUT, if you say, annexation/protectorate, then HELL YEAH, we dont lose a ruler, we gain . . . LAND!, glorious land, we dont have enough of that, now do we . . *cackles maniacally*
excellent, i approve of that possibility.

[Jacobus Loki]

Hasan for Duke of Babkha and Kaiser of Shireroth.

[Jonas]

What I would approve of course!

More land... beautiful land... gaining power...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I was not offered the position of "Duke of Babkha", I was offered the title of Shahanshah of Babkha. Even if (hypothetically) I were to make Babkha into a Duchy, it would mean I would have to be Shah first in order to make it happen.

[Erik Mortis]

huh? What? Me?! You know.. PM is proly the WORST way to reach me.. just letting people know... Now I have to go read these PMs...

[Erik Mortis]

Right... So.. the Shah doesn't even need to be a cit of babkha I am told. Thus he can be Shah and Kaiser without violating out laws concerning the Kaiser's citizenship.

Babkha would still be it's own nation, separate from Shireroth so nothing need change on the MCS map. So no problem there.

This would mean a split in attention for Hasan between Shireroth and Babkha. I suppose that is an issue.

Conflict of interest is obviously an issue. But we are allied with Babkha so in theory there interested and ours are pretty similar. I suppose no problem there unless a conflict comes forward.

I don't know how Babkha views there Shah. is it like how England views the Queen? Spiffy but basically just for show? If this be the case, I see no issues. This happens now and again in monarchy. And hell, it could a sign of the close ties between our nations, drawing them closer together.

If the Shah is more like our Kaiser.. then.. well.. that could get complicated. But there is precedent in the past of people leading to different nations. Though not in Shireroth tradition.

I have said my peace. I will stay out of it.


PS: if Babkha became part of Shireroth it would raise holy hell in the MCS...

[Jacobus Loki]

PS: if Babkha became part of Shireroth it would raise holy hell in the MCS...

Is that a bad thing?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Babkhas Shahs originally held great sway, however since the days of Abbas Namvari, The Shah is more titular. The basic function of the Shah in the present sense is to sign legislation and act as the supreme arbiter when internal situations require resolution. The Shah is supposed to stay out of internal politics as it is the duty of his government to deal with such things. Ric (Rashid Shah) who is a long standing citizen of Shireroth had no question of his loyalty in either Babkha or Shireroth. If I were to accept, and Ric returned I would give up the title of Shah if he so wished it.

Additionally, I cannot see why anyone would be opposed to the expansion of the powers of Shireroth's Kaiser. Traditionally from the position of a Monarch, the expansion of the realm is a matter of Royal privilege and has little to do with the internal workings of one element of that realm.

Let's not forget, it was The Stewart himself who suggested only a short time ago, that member states of the proposed Commonwealth of Shireroth recognize The Kaiser as their head of state.