Trade - some thoughts

[Andreas the Wise]

Today I reviewed a Trade Proposal from Ocia for Novatainia. I was hoping, if it was good, it could be applicable for Shireroth - Gralan trading too. However ... it wasn't.
That's not to say it wasn't well thought out. It just was well thought out for Ocia, and not for Novatainia.

As I see it, there are really 3 'types' of things that could be traded:
1. Resources, as on the MCS Resource map, or as detailed by Giessan Nations.
- My preference is to express as percent of 1 resource deposit as on the MCS Resource Map, and that percent is acquired each month, non-cumulative. Giessan Resources can then be easily estimated in size based on this. So, for example, if Shireroth has two Oil in their land, we have 200% oil. Gralus might have one Oil, and an agreement with Alexandria to access 10% of their resources. They have two Oils. So Gralus has 120% Oil. Easy? It gets harder in Giess. Ocia says they have Oil. How much? Well, if their land size is small and they say they have about 10 types of resources, they obviously don't have full access to all of them. They might decide they have 70% oil, which they'll up to 100% when they get their planned expansion through. Make sense?
- Other nations, however, like to deal in RW units, like sell Oil by Barrels, etc. This would be the Giessan preference, certainly (I'm mentioning Giess because I'd like to get a full trading proposal that could be used by Micran AND Giess nations accounting for the three types of things - I'll get on that later). The difficulty with that is deciding how much people get. You get a much more subjective thing, with one nation saying they have 120 Barrels a month, another 200, say, and both have access to one 'oil' as on the MCS resource map. You also have to decide - are they cumulative? Can you stockpile? If we start now, how far back can you stockpile etc ... it all gets rather complicated - hence my preference for 1.
- Trading for this could be done between the individual companies that produce them, but very few companies on Micras have separate accounts for banks etc. More practical, each nation trades as a whole, and resources are taken primarily not for company use but for the use of the whole nation - simple simulation, so to speak. So Shireroth might note we have no spice or Salt, and decide to buy 40% Spice and 60% Salt off Babkha. This salt doesn't go to any particular company - it just goes to the Shirithian population as a whole.
- Either way, we still need to decide what resources are used for - a standard of how much nations need, for example.
2. Goods, as created by fictional companies
- These could be magic swords or staffs, as made by Gralan companies, or tanks made by Riponian companies, etc. These items would be either described in words, or with a picture. Normally these things have a use in war, otherwise they aren't bought. Exceptions to the rule include Property.
- These are obviously bought and sold on individual levels, and the basis of some economies. Trading merely needs to provide opportunities for individuals to know what's around and exchange currency to buy these.
- There is some national use in acquiring, say, 100 Tanks for the military etc. However, these aren't recognised by ADB (they have their own functioning system) and you don't HAVE to buy for SNARL, so again, it's sorta pointless ...
3. Services, as created by individuals/fictional companies
- What the Kaiser wants the Shirithian economy based on.
- Trading would just require currency exchange so foreigners can know what's available and buy it.
- Currency exchange between these economies and post based economies is a little harder.

Any decent trading proposal would have to either be clearly aimed at one of these, or aimed at all three. I'll get back to you on further details of proposal.

[Erik Mortis]

I think what it really comes down to is, as expressed in your ideas at some point, is what are the trades resources used for.

Long ago we tried to make it so the economy simulated life, if you could not pay basic expenses... you died. But as you can't REALLY die... what's the point? In real life, economy is driven by at the least the need for basic resources and services to live. Food, shelter..etc So we need something to eat up resources in the nation, before we can think about trading them.

But this also makes Shireroth more and more like a game.. or actually simulation. Which some people won't wanna participate in.

I like the idea of trading with other nations, but it all comes down to whether we really wanna make Shireroth a simulation or not.

[Andreas the Wise]

Well, my system for resources is a bit like that, but you simulate your nation's life as a whole. That is, you get enough resources of the right type, you advance to the next economic level of development ... I'll get a full proprosal together soon ...
Personally, I'm all for games/simulations. I'm not as big a fan of realistic simulations, but the GSO is, and since I want to make a proposal that works for everyone ...

[Erik Mortis]

I'm on the fence about the game idea...

[Andreas the Wise]

Well, I'm getting a very serious proposal together, so I'll show it to you when I'm done. It's not really very gamey at all ...

[Andreas the Wise]

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=drwj4wm_7fbtf85cc
Here's my proposal and standard agreement rolled into one doc. The start bit is a generically worded agreement for trade between nations. The important thing about this agreement is the options nations have. They decide how their money is transferred (a or b) and an exchange rate is agreed. Each individual nation also decides how it will conduct it's trade (1, 2 or 3, which is combination).
Below that, I have standard Trade Embargo/Blockade treaties (assumedly in a war trade stops too, but doesn't need a treaty ). Then I have my old reason for trading - national development, and a word on the other method.
Finally, I'm developing the excel doc that will manage all this. Databases have failed me in the past, whereas excel is easy to use. While it means not all the information is in one place, it does mean that each nation can manage trade the way they want with their own excel doc, and as long as they record all their info right, it still works fine.
The last word is on % vs units - which I just added to the document. I need a little help deciding the initial conversions - otherwise the system should work fine.

EDIT:
I didn't realise how long the excel doc would take ... but it does have the functionality we require (apart from optional goals, but I can just drop that from the level thing).
http://www.novatainia.org/user_files/an ... 0Trial.xls.
Hopefully this works in Excel 2003, it was made in 2007 format then converted ...
If it does, you should see the following features of functionality -
Yellow cells you can edit (oops, forgot to protect the sheet ... just trust me, you only need to edit yellow cells)
You put in the value (% wise) of the resource you make a month.
Each transaction in that month (you can have up to three per resource) lists the nation you're transacting with, the price and amount exchanged, and whether they are Buying or Selling from/to you.
From this, it calculates how much of the resource you have (that's the easy bit).
At the bottom, it calculates the level you're on (so far it only calculates your food qualification ... that bit takes an insane amount of If - Then statements, but I'll get it working), (with you inserting X value, it goes red if you don't have a number higher than 0 in).
On the other side, it also works out the total amount each nation owes you/you owe them. That takes an incredible amount of repeated code, but is actually rather nifty. Especially if you're trading as a nation, it tells you how much you are paying. You can type in the names of the nations (I should change that) and as long as it's typed in that way in the sheet above, it'll calculate it. You can even copy and paste and add more than 3 nations in ....
Even if you still trade by companies, this is useful for you to work out if, as a nation, you're making money on trade or not ....
For Shirithian purposes, we'd trade as a nation, so that's very useful ...
EDIT 2:Seems it doesn't quite all work in Excel 2003. Seems to work in Google docs if I manually copy the formula over. So it will work. I'll just finish it in 2007 first, since it looks much nicer ...
EDIT 3: A fully functional, albeit 2007, version:
http://www.novatainia.org/user_files/an ... kbook.xlsx