Response to Jay---- er Hasan's "platform'

[Kaiser Loki II]

1.Return of rightful MCS lands to Shireroth

[ii]It is interesting that this is number one on this list. It is a project that I have pursued for
some time. In the process of this I have arranged the secession of the rights to many lands to Shireroth, including those founded by me and other members of my family, including Cognito, Lac Glacei and Absentia. This ties any Imperial ambitions I may have to Shireroth exclusively.


I also shepherded the recognition of the Mango Map through the Landsraad. This is the first mention I have heard from my adversary supporting this. I appreciate his support for my plan, and would welcome his assistance in implementing it.

Further, as I have written into the law, care must be taken in implementing this plan. Peoples innocent of any aggression or disrespect to Shireroth presently occupy much of this land, and a number of them are dual-citizens of Shireroth. Our historic rights are important, but we must negociate with other nations with respect and good will. [/i]

2. Review and study possibilities of establishing an economy.

My personal life and business is heavily involved in the RL economy. I come to micronationry in part to escape from the pressures of such, so personally and truthfully, I have no interest in simulating my own RL work.

However, I have no objection to others doing so. My non-involvement would be an advantage, as I would be completely impartial.

3. Breaking new ground into Micronations.net if it has popular support.

I have spent considerable time involved in the MNN-wiki, and would be agreeable to see improvement in the area of relations with MNN. However, the GSO has close ties to the MNN, and we might be well served to be cautious.

I would also make overtures to micro-nations.org, where I have friends, and would seek out contacts in the Lusiphone sector, and sectors speaking French, Polish, Netherlandish, Suomi, and other languages.

4. Working on my concept for a "Mutual Emergency Activity Treaty" an initiative where close neighbours would ensure they help with forum activity during slow periods.

This is probably harmless, but most likely of little practical value. Importing foreigners to juice up the forum? If we open up contacts with other nations and sectors, activity will improve organicallithout artificial enhancements.

5. A possible virtual environment for Shireroth depending on popular support and 0cost.

The Kingdom of Hanover has something of this sort. An embassy to study what they have done, and to review such, would be interesting.

6. A public relations initiative which would send diplomats to new countries for support and old countries for allies. Only through public image can Shireroth expect to gain new citizens, and new citizens are the best ones.

Good except for the last statement. An attempt to coax new citizen support? I am very fond of newbies. (I have gone to war many times in many places on their behalf, and I will go into more detail in another place.) Again, new citizens are great, but many of them don´t stay. Shireroth´s strength is in our core of strong friends. What would be preferable, and unknown, or the return of Nick?

Shirerithian citizenship is worth something . It should not be watered down.

7. My personal project is going to be working on a comprehensive history of Shireroth, going through all the old threads, essays and books and coming up with some ideas regarding it.

This is a worthy project. Kaiser Loki II would encourage the Count of Hyperborea in such an enterprise. I hope that some of my efforts on the three major micronational wikis might be of assistance. However, should my adversary in some way succeed in his effort to sit on the Mango Throne, I would counsel that this project be delayed. Being a Kaiser with an ambitious agenda will take considerable effort.

8. Bringing old Apollo culture back in certain forms to honour them. Perhaps a County of Jasonia or Audentor.

My first on-line micronation treaty was with the Parliament of Audentor, "before whom all mortals (once) tremble(d)". (Cocoanut Groremnant territory of that treaty, which is now Shirithian.) Such a quasi-revivals should take place with great care and respect, if at all. Cocoanut Grove is a remnant territory of that treaty, which is now Shirithian by my effort.

9. Organising the militaries of Shireroth to be premier in the sector, establishing a new andvital stick to back the diplomatic initiatives while still respecting traditions over anything else.

Micronational militaries can be great fun. It´s fun to conjure forth fleets of bombers, or squadrons of brave knights. Shireroth´s primary military is, and should be, at the Ducal level, and as surreal as the Duke wishes.

Real micronational war is obsolete. The Spam Cannon is obsolete. Interference with someone else´s website,(commonly known as Denial of Service attacks) violate macronational law and it has consequences, at least for those of legal age.

The only "Stick" of any consequence is prestige and diplomacy.

10. The reintroduction of the Charter.

The restoration of the Charter, immediately, as written, without amendment. Any changes can be made under the Charter. This was done today, under my authority as Steward of Kaiser Mors V.

11. Establishing a dedicated legal eagle, someone who will be the legal expert on Shirerothian law.

The restoration of the Arbiter under the Charter would accomplish this. Again, this was done under my authority as Steward of Kaiser Mors V.

12. Taking those laws and making them the standard for other nations to follow.

Huh? The purpose of Micronationry-at-Large is diversity and freedom. Shirithian law is for Shireroth. Antican law is for Antica, Babkhan law for Babkha. Those that admire Shirithian law are welcome to join us, individually or by annexation. Others should have the right to exper their own cultures and laws.

13. Updating the site and forums

Updating, but with respect. Gently, slowly.

There are others, many others. And those that do not believe I can accomplish this, well I´ve done it before, and I will do it again.

Congratulations on your achievements!

But Shireroth is not a blank template for your will, desire, or plans. Or mine. Or even for our beloved Mors V. It is a community, a shared idea. The Kaiser rules, absolutely, but more by consensus than by fiat.

Brother Hasan has given you a bio-sketch. I am up late after a long RL trip (a successful one, for those that are interested).

I will give one for those that do not know me well, hopefully tomorrow.

[Jonas]

The Kaiser has spoken...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Well I am now, but thank you for the introduction Jonas.

[ii]It is interesting that this is number one on this list. It is a project that I have pursued for
some time. In the process of this I have arranged the secession of the rights to many lands to Shireroth, including those founded by me and other members of my family, including Cognito, Lac Glacei and Absentia. This ties any Imperial ambitions I may have to Shireroth exclusively.


I also shepherded the recognition of the Mango Map through the Landsraad. This is the first mention I have heard from my adversary supporting this. I appreciate his support for my plan, and would welcome his assistance in implementing it.

Further, as I have written into the law, care must be taken in implementing this plan. Peoples innocent of any aggression or disrespect to Shireroth presently occupy much of this land, and a number of them are dual-citizens of Shireroth. Our historic rights are important, but we must negociate with other nations with respect and good will. [/i]

Well, if you're inferring I've stollen your idea, I'm afraid that simply isn't so. As said elsewhere, I gained Babkha its continent back and I will be presenting the idea for Shireroth in the Landsraad as well. But I will look at your research and see what you've done.


My personal life and business is heavily involved in the RL economy. I come to micronationry in part to escape from the pressures of such, so personally and truthfully, I have no interest in simulating my own RL work.

However, I have no objection to others doing so. My non-involvement would be an advantage, as I would be completely impartial.

Great


I have spent considerable time involved in the MNN-wiki, and would be agreeable to see improvement in the area of relations with MNN. However, the GSO has close ties to the MNN, and we might be well served to be cautious.

I would also make overtures to micro-nations.org, where I have friends, and would seek out contacts in the Lusiphone sector, and sectors speaking French, Polish, Netherlandish, Suomi, and other languages.

If you've a means of approaching micronations.org, then excellent. I find they are generally against fantasist nations but I'd be eager to hear your strategy for this. I generally find that seeking contacts in the other sectors are well received but lack any real achievement.


[/i]This is probably harmless, but most likely of little practical value. Importing foreigners to juice up the forum? If we open up contacts with other nations and sectors, activity will improve organically, without artificial enhancements.[/i]
Hubris is generally the undoing of most micronations. It always seems as though the good times will never stop, that is until you're receiving 2 posts a week and the government is no longer functioning due to LOA. Having a mutual activity treaty not only brings in additional activity, it also brings in new ideas, discussions and closer ties with allied nations. It might work, it might not, either way its still worth trying.


The Kingdom of Hanover has something of this sort. An embassy to study what they have done, and to review such, would be interesting.
I've already addressed this with Scott, the aim is not to clone the Second Life scenerio, its to look at different aspects of the concept. Review the comment involving the 3B virtual browser.


d except for the last statement. An attempt to coax new citizen support? I am very fond of newbies. (I have gone to war many times in many places on their behalf, and I will go into more detail in another place.) Again, new citizens are great, but many of them don´t stay. Shireroth´s strength is in our core of strong friends. What would be preferable, and unknown, or the return of Nick?

Shirerithian citizenship is worth something . It should not be watered down.

Long term citizens are valuable as well, but they lack objectivity. When a nation exists with the same set of citizens for years, the nation becomes stagnant. I'm not suggesting we "water down" Shireroth's citizen base, don't put words in my mouth. I'm suggesting we attempt to gain new citizens to ensure there is a healthy Shireroth 5 years from now and beyond. Longevity is paramount.

This is a worthy project. Kaiser Loki II would encourage the Count of Hyperborea in such an enterprise. I hope that some of my efforts on the three major micronational wikis might be of assistance. However, should my adversary in some way succeed in his effort to sit on the Mango Throne, I would counsel that this project be delayed. Being a Kaiser with an ambitious agenda will take considerable effort.
I prefer leading by example instead of hoping for the best with deligation. There is nothing that says I won't have enough time to research history. Like it says, it is a "personal project" which I will be doing regardless of the outcome.


My first on-line micronation treaty was with the Parliament of Audentor, "before whom all mortals (once) tremble(d)". (Cocoanut Grove is a remnant territory of that treaty, which is now Shirithian.) Such a quasi-revivals should take place with great care and respect, if at all. Cocoanut Grove is a remnant territory of that treaty, which is now Shirithian by my ef]
It isn't revival, I think you missed my point. I think you should read the discussion I had with Scott over my points before you respond again, there is a lot of duplication with regard to the questions.

The only "Stick" of any consequence is prestige and diplomacy.
Then it´s a good thing I won an award for diplomacy. I was also lucky enough to work with Luis Portela whom I believe to be the most skilled diplomat the community currently has. Because of my military background, I look at diplomacy through a military lense. So before someone accuses me blindly of war mongering, I don't mean in terms of "ethos" but in terms of execution, and it works.

Quote:
The restoration of the Charter, immediately, as written, without amendment. Any changes can be made under the Charter. This was done today, under my authority as Steward of Kaiser Mors V.
Glad you agreed with my intent.


Quote:
11. Establishing a dedicated legal eagle, someone who will be the legal expert on Shirerothian law.
The restoration of the Arbiter under the Charter would accomplish this. Again, this was done under my authority as Steward of Kaiser Mors V.
Again, glad you agreed with my intent.

Huh? The purpose of Micronationry-at-Large is diversity and freedom. Shirithian law is for Shireroth. Antican law is for Antica, Babkhan law for Babkha. Those that admire Shirithian law are welcome to join us, individually or by annexation. Others should have the right to experiment with their own cultures and laws.

It's funny how you immediately assumed I meant "forced" and not "adopted". Perhaps my reiteration was not clear enough, the idea is that we work the legal code to make it the best system in the community. A system that others would want to emulate.

Updating, but with respect. Gently, slowly.

I wouldn't have it any other way.

Congratulations on your achievements!ut Shireroth is not a blank template for your will, desire, or plans. Or mine. Or even for our beloved Mors V. It is a community, a shared idea. The Kaiser rules, absolutely, but more by consensus than by fiat.

Brother Hasan has given you a bio-sketch. I am up late after a long RL trip (a successful one, for those that are interested).

I will give one for those that do not know me well, hopefully tomorrow.
I am aware of what Shireroth's tradition is, which is why if you read the list again, you'd note the number of times I state that these are SUGGESTIONS that will be submitted to the nation for review.

You also missed a number of additional concepts I published in a separate thread.

[Kaiser Loki II]

I glanced at the additional comments, have'nt had time to digest them.

The response was written off-line while I had no access, and is about two days behind.

It is also laced with a level of rhetoric that seems to be evaporating from the contest. Probably a good thing, al in all.

More later.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I enjoy the new style we've adopted much better. I figure no matter what the outcome, these ideas are on the table, and if there is any interest in achieving them we'd better work together.

[Kaiser Loki II]

Amen.

Beating each other up over our "ethinicity" is counter-productive. A Cyberian with his pen dipped in vitriol is every bit as bad as a Babkhan shippoing fictious people to a fictious salt mine. Maybe worse.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Actually I know very little about Cyberia. My knowledge of it is exclusively through the interpretations of the accounts of other nations such as Lyrica and individuals like Julien.

[Kaiser Loki II]

(SHUDDERS)

You don't want to know more.

Eight Year Civil Wars, real-world time. October 1998 - Dec. + - 2007.

Isn't that something like 3000 years localough it speaks to patience and stubbornness.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

There really isn't an equivalent incident in this community, I suppose the closest would be the MCS/GSO split, but that would require looking at the community as a series of waring factions within a stateless nation.

[Kaiser Loki II]

There really isn't an equivalent incident in this community,...

For which the Gods be Thanked!

Throws grenade away from Hasan.

BOO/\/\ /\/\ !!

BTW. would you know anything about my Babkha log-in being deleted? You were most kind during my brief visit.

[Erik Mortis]

You two seem to be getting along better now... Excellent.

[Andreas the Wise]

Even though I'm still supporting Hasan, may I compliment you, Loki, on your cool wit in that first post ...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

(Cocoanut Grove is a remnant territory of that treaty, which is now Shirithian.

I remember the Treaty of Coconut Grove. But why's it now Shirerothian? Is there any MCS land it corresponds to?

[Jacobus Loki]

I remember the Treaty of Coconut Grove. But why's it now Shirerothian? Is there any MCS land it corresponds to?

No, not really.

I wanted to clean up al of my loose ends, micronationally, so along with Lac Glacei went all of the territories of the House of Bonaparte-Stuart-Kahunamea, except

-Puritania, which was returned to Julien Starr
-Terra Novum, which belongs to Tim Dunkin as its founder
-and any claim to Cyberia, as represented by the FRC. (The FRC is on earth, the VCC is on Geiss, and I'm on Micras, so it all works out.)

It (Cocoanut Grove) was in origin territory of Choconya, if that helps. Audentor had a joint claim, but when they went away, I seized it.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

It (Cocoanut Grove) was in origin territory of Choconya, if that helps. Audentor had a joint claim, but when they went away, I seized it.

Seizing is bad for your health, I order you to take a prescription of anti-seizure medication.

[Jacobus Loki]

Let's see, that was 2000, I've been symptom free for, oh except for all that other stuff