You shouldn't have been denied..

[Kaiser Mors V]

I see no reason to deny the Sancts.. at least a few on the MCS map.. we should trying again sooner then 2010.. maybe in a few months... and let me know next time... and I'll make an appearance...

[Liam conToketi]

We were denied?

[benkern]

Yes.

The expansion was accepted because it was seemingly virtually useless land that used to be Shirerithian, Shireroth is active these days etc.

The Sancts however were denied because they really don't go along with MCS policy kinda. We don't show that sort of thing on the map... or at least the Council is unwilling to do so. They've no problem with what's on the map now, but if Shireroth's is accepted, we can't be assured that every other nation on Micras isn't going to cover the world in floating/whatevering cities.

[Kaiser Mors V]

Yes.. but they do represent an entire duchy of our nation, and inegral part of our geography and culture...

[hypatias mom]

Try telling that to the MCS, though.

[Jacobus Loki]

So, they are stealth. Float up next to an adversary and WHAM

I mean BOO/\/\ /\/\!

[benkern]

Carol, you'd be surprised how much the MCS Council as a body represents the unique nature of Shireroth. However, we must expect to make some concessions, such as getting more Sancts. Sorry Straylight.

[Ari Rahikkala]

s/more/any/

[Bayen]

Toketi has a floating city somewhere... we sort of ignored the MCS and said, "Yeah, we have a floating city, there isn't anything you can do about it." No one cared. (No one noticed either, but that means we get to keep it! )

You could do the same...

[Liam conToketi]

Momochi City isn't so much floating as it's foundation is in the bay and it's built atop that...it's a mega-city pyramid in all technicality...

Anyway, they never said no to it...so I don't see why they said no to you...I guess they just did it to show that they don't want everyone claiming cities in the oceans...keeps everyone land based...

[Ari Rahikkala]

The next time I go to the MCS, I'm not going to appeal to the "no reason to deny me" argument. There's plenty of reason to deny me, there's plenty of reason to deny any claim for cities on the sea. I'm just hoping to eventually convince them that it doesn't have to be an absolute rule (they haven't written it into the rulebook yet as far as I can tell, though I'd prefer that if it seems they *will* write it into the rulebook I'd prefer to be notified so I can try to convince them otherwise)... the MCS makes judgments, the MCS balancs different factors, the MCS seems to occasionally even get into something akin to negotiating when they're dealing with land claims. All I need to do is make them see they can do the same with sea claims: They don't suddenly have to come up with a rule saying "we have to accept every claim for cities on the sea" or "we have to reject every claim for cities on the sea", they can consider each case separately and weigh the reasons to see whether a claim is worthy or not. Once I've convinced them of that, *then* I can remind them of Straylight's lengthy existence, five citizens, etc..

[hypatias mom]

You have been writing about Straylight for so many years that it should predate the prohibitions they are trying to impose on your duchy. If you showed them the dates of the early work, wouldn't they almost have to "grandfather" in your work? Who knows, it might sway them.

[Kaiser Mors V]

I would have at least have allowed the 4 largest ones back when I ran and founded the MCS... It wasn't the MCS's place to deny it really. That was imposing a cultural judgment on our nation. The MCS oversteps it's bounds A LOT in my opinion. Back in the day I actually would flat out say, it's not the MCS' place to deny something, or decide something... Straylight is a duchy founded on the idea and concept of aquatic cities and such. On the idea and science of ocean living... They would not deny mods to add cities that were based on land.. why deny them based on the ocean... We've claimed that area of the ocean... no one has ever refuted this.. so why can't we list a few cities.. 4-5 of them...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Well, I for one think the MCS made the right decision.

I personally like Straylight, but it would've opened the floodgates. There are a lot of nations, though I won't name names, that have no culture but think it's cool to do anything that makes them look bigger. Those nations would've made undersea colonies too (in the sense of telling the MCS "I claim this ocean, put some cities there") and eventually the ocean would be just as full as the land and the map would look ugly. The MCS would try to refuse them, and they would say "But you gave it to Shireroth! You're so BIASED!"


Or even if people didn't go overboard with the ocean colonies, it would've been something else. A flying city that changes location every update. Constructing an artificial island to give themselves more territory. Antarctic bases. It would've been something. The MCS quite reasonably wanted to nip all that in the bud. It's a shame a historic and well-crafted culture like Straylight had to suffer for it, but that's life.

[benkern]

NB has an Artic Research Station, Scott - it's called Darwin, it can be found North of the "Home Islands" as they are called over there or Madison Isle. I think Jeremy wrote some short stories on the travel there which showed enough cultural development to allow it to be placed on the map.

Back in the day I actually would flat out say, it's not the MCS' place to deny something, or decide something..

Things have changed A LOT since the old days, and they've changed amazingly even since Ryan's time as Administrator-General. This Council business has developed alot. Which may be a step in the right direction. Anyway, point is, now the MCS sort of judges what is decorum on the map or not, in the name of cartopgraphic consistency - in its lightest form, ensuring fonts are correct and colours are not the same, in the extreme there was this big ruckus over naming a city on Micras after a Nazi extermination camp.

[Andreas the Wise]

For example Ari, Novatainia has a Whirlpool. It turned up quite early on in our nation and is now an integral part of legends, and is, technically, the home to an underwater race (but we don't tell MCS that). They had it on the map for quite some time, but in a clean up decided to remove it ...
I don't think they'll like Sancts either ... be glad they're not removing all of them.

However, on the sly, we have two underwater cities, to two different races, a ton of dwarven tunnel systems, extra mountains, and we're just about to discover some lost flying cities ... but since all of that stuff is purely for magic purposes and irrelevant to international dealings, we figured we don't need the MCS to show it. Though whirlpool in war would've been nice ...

Bottom line - unless you want someone bombing them, don't put them on.

[Kaiser Mors V]

On the Nazi name thing. While I don't approve of it... it's not the MCS's place to even consider not allowing it based on that criteria. Now, if they already have a lot of cities, that would be a relevant argument.

[benkern]

It was BS, Erik, and its over, so it doesn't matter. But these days the MCS is the moderator of all on the map. There was quite a bit of controversy over "The Jokerdom of" claim (I think the name was meant to be a joke). Can't remember how that one ended... anyway what I'm saying is that regardless of what the MCS should or shouldn't be doing, its position as runner of the map now extends to authority over every letter and pixel produced in the .PNG image.

[Kaiser Mors V]

Then I have issues with how it is currently run. And desire to see it go back to what it was created to be. A mapping society.. Nothing more. It almost seems that it's become some YAMO almost... next thing you know it'll be arbitrating wars... and condemning nation and issuing sanctions..

[benkern]

Actually we do our own RecWars sometimes, the Taylor Bay RecWar, and recently the War of the Superpowers in which Gralus got owned by some oldies.

It's evolved, man...

[Kaiser Mors V]

It has corrupted... Man.

[Jacobus Loki]

No copyright, no authority.

Influence, perhaps.

[Liam conToketi]

I've been contemplation another break-off mapping society, since the MCS has started pissing me off and the GSO is not very appealing...

[Kaiser Mors V]

No. I oppose such an idea. The MCS may be pissing me off. but another useless mapping organization is not needed. AUMO? anyhoo.

No. But the MCS needs work. It needs to return to just being about the maps.. and not about telling nations what is and isn't appropriate or whatever it is they are doing now. It was founded as an organization that had a very simple goal. Make consistent, good looking maps. We adding in the arbitration for land because we had to. And the policies so we made decisions without bias. But now telling people they can't have a city because it's offensive, or because they don't like the idea of aquatic cities. And that stunt with that island off our coast a while back. Then their constant nit picking about large nations.. I think we need to see more large nations on the map. and would champaign for that in the MCS if people wanted me to. Even if they were the people who thought shireroth ought be smaller. We earned our land, and I support any other nation to do the same!

I seem to have gotten off topic.

[hypatias mom]

I like hearing the passion. The MCS does need to return to its original job of mapping, and leave internal affairs to the countries involved.

[Liam conToketi]

It's not so much that the MCS is bad. It's more the people that are in charge and various people who frequent it are infuriating. Plus, along with Andreas's ideas, the new mapping organization would be very open and free. The organization would put together the general map, but what's there physically (except resources) would be up to the country that controls the lands...among other things...follow the link...

[Kaiser Mors V]

Once again, I can't support another useless mapping organization. Nor will I abandon or forsake the MCS.

but I do agree the people there seem.. less then pleasant... That's why I'm back there again, making comments and stuff..

[Andreas the Wise]

Now now Lyam, my idea wasn't ...
wait, which idea was this? The space one wasn't meant to really be a new mapping organisation, the other one was only considered while debating the Jokerdom claim
(despite a number of rational arguments that humour and satire can constitute culture, there are some people who just have an irrational bias against Joke nations. The name was not a joke in it itself. It was a satire of the all nations that are the Democratic Kingdom of So and So or whatever. We were the Laughocratic Jokerdom of. Laughocracy pwns democracy, as it's funnier, we had a Joker instead of a King, and of was satire. What's wrong with a name like that?)

*tries to calm blood pressure as he needs to leave for work in a minute*

[hypatias mom]

I think it sounds like a great premise.

[Kaiser Mors V]

And that's the point of this branch of micronations. To try new things. And enjoy ourselves. We aren't secessionists, so why not enjoy life?