A plan for the future of Shireroth Government..

[Kaiser Mors V]

I was gonna put this in general.. but this makes more sense..

So... Jacobus is Steward.. and I am Kaiser... However, my activity is waning as of late... various issues... but.. this puts me in a position to try something... and... I'm half tempted to think I'll get dethroned for doing it..


In about 2 weeks(give or take a week or two) I'll be "dying" and come back as a new Kaiser.. just as active as I currently am.. and.. when the time comes... I'll do it again... and again... and again... effectively... I don't plan to ever give up the throne again... unless I have good reason, and only temporarily..

Am I being a power hungry son of a bitch? not really.. as I don't plan to do a whole lot. Just maintenance, the odd ceremony... make appearances... give approval for big plans.. or deny them... maybe change a noble now and again...

so how will the nation function? You ask? The Landsraad and the Steward will run the nation. The Steward shall as always have the powers of the Kaiser, with only the Kaiser above him. And the Charter once I put it back. Which will be before I change names...

The Steward will run the day to day operations of the nation, with me to oversee and help when needed. I'll change laws and things to allow for it if we run into any problems... but the Charter is flexible enough these days to allow for it... The Kaiser, me, will simply remain as a safety net. As it honestly has always been.

And now for the Kicker.. the part that will REALLY rile you up.. When I change names... Jacobus will no longer be Steward (not anything against him, just setting the stage for the next part).. at which point a new Steward will be needed. I however.. will not appoint one. The Landsraad will Elect the next steward. and upon every Kaiser change, or resignation of the Steward, they will elect a new one(or reelect the old).. if they need to remove the Steward I think there is law to allow for that, if not, they can speak to me..

I hear already the mutterings of "Democracy" and the gasps of those that see this coming from the most, historically, conservative of us all. Times change, and I like to tinker.. if this fails.. then there will be no harm, for I shall remain as Kaiser to come back in and resume my role... if it works, it may bring politics, and activity to the Landsraad.

I don't have the will to be here as much as I ought or have in the past.. maybe when I get myself back together... (going back on meds might help hehe) till then.. let's try something...

Let the gasping and swearing begin!

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

About goddamned time, m'lord!

And thank you for seeing the light, and realizing the potential that this RecWar has for furthering our culture.

[Kaiser Mors V]

huh? Explain yourself. And I didn't say anything about the recwar...

[hypatias mom]

It sounds like a very logical move to me. As long as you remain, even as just titular head, I believe things will remain robust here. If you decide to jump ship, things might languish again. You are more vital to the health of this country than you wish you were, and I agree that a time of reduced but not eliminated activity would probably be best for all concerned. (I agree that adding back the meds would probably smooth things out, at least in part. We hope the rest of your life goes better as well.)

[benkern]

Conservatism is the easy way out. Can't remember the phrase exactly, but its something like: "You don't notice your chains until you try to move." I've been battling for reform in a few nations over the last year, and I find its much easier to want the status quo to remain. However, whats not easy is trying to convince reformers that its the better decision (usually because it isn't). Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Sounds good anyway Your Niftiness, good to see a long post by a Kaiser. Speeches don't seem to happen so much in New New Shireroth.

[Jacobus Loki]

Then I'd best get my fiendish plan together, for it will need full powers to accomplish.

If anyone has an EZboard account that works, I could use your help. No, its not for what you old-timers think.

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

huh? Explain yourself. And I didn't say anything about the recwar...

Antican = I love democracy = very happy at this latest turn of events.

I was, however, looking forward to years of working to undermine your government and overthrow it, replacing it with a pure democratic system, but I already did that with Antica, so I guess I'll just enjoy the ride this time.

And you didn't read the rest of that thread on narrative something or other, did you? Well, if you step down and accredit it to the uprising, we can work that little civil war into our culture, and I think it'll make a damn nifty addition at that.

[Andreas the Wise]

This seems a totally wonderful idea to me, for a very different reason ... it's what I'm used to.

The two nations I'm most active in have had monarchs for the long term. One only just changed over, the other shows no signs of changing. In my experience, the ideal job of the monarch is to leave the actual running of the country to his key advisor or advisors, and just interfere when they push things too much. To be honest, in Novatainia, the way I view it (though he might not) the King is there to stop me doing anything to stupid, and, aside from that, leave the actual running of the country to me ...

So thumbs up from me. The one question - does the one citizenship rule apply to Stewards too?

[Gman Russell]

Do I even need to post my opinion on this?

...

time to start planning another rebellion.

[Jacobus Loki]

The one question - does the one citizenship rule apply to Stewards too?

No - Or I wouldn't have taken the job.........

[Kaiser Mors V]

Well.. it's only democracy in that the Landsraad a non elected body gets to elect a dictator for a time...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Well.. it's only democracy in that the Landsraad a non elected body gets to elect a dictator for a time...

No, it's exactly democracy. You're just changing the names.

In the current system, the Kaiser holds absolutely power, but the Prophet keeps the Kaiser in line. Sometimes the Prophet is formally the Prophet, Brrapa Lu Eraro. Other times he's just Erik. Back during the reign of Kaiser Mog, Brrapa condemned his various screw-ups, Mog didn't listen, and so Erik told Mog he was overthrown. Back during the War of the Wylthean Succession, when James and I were fighting, we went to Brrapa and he sorted it out. Whenever a Kaiser (such as myself) tried to institute reforms, Erik told them exactly how far they were allowed to go, and they generally listened.

So what this proposal does is change titles. "Prophet" becomes "Kaiser", and "Kaiser" becomes "Steward". And then the old Kaiser position gets elected by majority vote.

There are soooo many reasons not to do that, most of which I learned from YOU. First, people enjoy it more if the "Kaiser" position is the one that changes hands. Lots of people want to be Kaiser. Not because of the power. Because it's FUN to be KING. I liked having people call me as "His Niftiness, Kaiser Los III, Lord of All Shireroth, and so on..." I liked having an Imperial Bloodline, and getting to issue Imperial Decrees, and so on. "Steward" has all the appeal of "Secretary-General" or "Prime Minister". It sounds like a guy who serves you wine at a snooty restaurant. Shireroth's system, where anyone who proves zir loyalty and competence can hope to be Kaiser someday is unique in the micronational world and one of our strongest selling points. Everyone wants to be Kaiser. To say that you're going to claim the title (if not the power) of Kaiser forever is denying people one of the best parts of the Shireroth experience.

Second, the way you're doing it, we become an (uuurrrrghh!) Constitutional Monarchy. Kinda like, for example, EVERY OTHER MICRONATION IN THE WHOLE WORLD! Why do foreigners and citizens alike admire Shireroth so much? Because it's big? Other countries have more people than us. Because it's old? Probably part of it, but Cyberia's older than us and all sorts of people hate them. I think it's because we're creative. We're different. We don't do the "Constitutional Monarchy Where Everyone Has European-Sounding Names" thing quite so much.

I really admire the current system of Shirerithian government - where the Kaiser chooses the most competent person as his successor. It's a system that works really well but is almost never tried in the real world. The Roman Empire did it during the period of the Five Good Emperors, which was its most prosperous and successful time, but other than that, pretty much no one. It's impressed me enough that I'm adapting it as the basis of Hyperborean government in the articles I'm writing now, and Hyperborea's my own concept of a utopian state. That's one of the things I think micronationalism is about - trying really good ideas that real countries have mysteriously ignored. It's NOT about pretending to be 18th century England, which is what most other countries do these days and what we seem to be moving towards.

Then there's election. Elections are destabilizing and contrary to a sense of community. Let's review. Audente elections. Ended up with the secession of Shireroth, Hyperborea, Jasonia, and eventually Tapfer, and the complete dissolution of Audentior. Tymarian elections. Ended up with Diga getting enraged and seceding. Menelmacari elections. Ended up with some of the population leaving in disgust and eventually leading a coup that eventually destroyed the nation. My own New Audentior project's elections. Even though everyone agreed I should be the executive, most people went and quit in disgust over arguments about the legislature. And read a newspaper today - 250 people just got killed over election results in Kenya. And let's not even get INTO Pakistan.

It's true that some countries have more success. Babkha's gone through a lot of them without falling apart. But look at the consequences of those elections Polarization, name-calling and enmity. The amount of trouble in elections is usually proportional to how active and committed the country's citizens are; Shireroth has the most active and committed citizens of anywhere, ergo...

Last of all, you say as Kaiser that you'll keep us safe from any trouble that factionalization could cause. But you're...not very good at standing up to large groups of people who don't like you. When too many Shirerithians get mad at you, you tend to get depressed and sulk. If some political party that disagreed with you about something got their candidate elected, and you kept thwarting that Steward, that political party might attack you politically, accuse you of being a bad Kaiser, etc. And I think your response would be something like "After all I did for this country...fine! Go ruin it! See if I care! You'll be sorry!" That's not a promising basis for a system of government.

My counterproposal is this:

Abdicate in two weeks, as planned. Formally declare yourself a prophet...bring back your Brrapa Lu Eraro account. Choose Jacobus or whoever as Kaiser. As the prophet, give him a formal coronation in which he swears to abide by the rules of the gods, as interpreted by yourself. If you really want some kind of elections, politicize the Praetor - give him control over all the Ministries, with the power to order Ministers around as he sees fit, or something like that. Then elect the Praetor as usual.

Otherwise...it's revoltin' time!
(I get more and more verbose every day, but this time it's for a good cause)

[Gryphon Avocatio]

There is dirty work afoot. Pray, O Kaiser, that the Gods do not cast you into the depths.

Revolutr veneje...

[Kaiser Mors V]

And with good points...

As it stands this was mostly just a proposal.. I might still give it a whirl for curiosity sake.. but.. I do think you may be right...

The problem is.. all your examples of people listening to "The Prophet" was when those people were my direct friends... and when I was popular.. Many.. SEVERAL times.. the Kaisership has gotten out of hand.. Aure? being a good example.. Do you think Meskan I or II would have listened to me in the slightest.. or.. hell.. did any of the Los' ever listen to me? Not a once... Truth be told I want to be able to let go some day... But I know the Prophet gig will never fly (actually the entire system will fall apart the second I try anything that's not "popular"...)

And let us go back to Aure for a moment.. an example of someone coming to Shireroth, a rising star, and me giving them a chance.. (as you claim is such a part of our appeal) with absolute power and only the Prophet over her... and .. I got banned from the throne in the end on that one when I tried to exert influence over her... and she broke mentally and left... And I honestly didn't even act like THAT much of an asshole to her.. I've read the logs after the fact... I could have been nicer... but.. I....ok.. off track...

We all know that I'll only ever need to use my power when it's absolutely needed.. but when it needed ..I'll be ignored.. or banned from the throne.. or something.. it's what's happened in the past... If I retain the power, but let another wield it for a time, it's the same thing.. but it's out in the open for all to see that I'm still in command.. And.. new comers get a chance... And I can still step in and deal with factionization. I'm a lot stronger when it comes to stuff here in Shireroth then I once was... So you point about me getting depressed and leaving I am.. dubious about.


And on a side note.. the times I've left in the past had A LOT more to do with real life then with Micronations... Few here know what I was going through when I left for that year or so... Alex... and all that... *sighs*... moving on... So while I do get depressed when people rally against me here, I usually still fight it out...

There is also the problem that to do your idea.. we need to put it into the charter.. in some way.. but then the Kaiser could just edit it out.. and we are back to square one...

Ah fuck it... hehe It was a silly idea anyways..

[Kaiser Mors V]

Oh.. and .. HEY NICK!

[Scott of Hyperborea]

The matter involving Aure was terrible, but I think in the end it was proof that the system worked. You didn't like some of what Aure was doing, so you told her. She got upset and left. What she didn't do was say "Well, who cares what YOU think?" Even though she personally didn't like you, she realized that her two choices were "do what Erik wanted" or "throw a fit and leave", and sadly, she chose the latter. (BTW, I've also seen the logs of your conversations; either you or Aure gave them to me. I didn't think you did anything bad either. She was just a really emotional person.)

The matter with Kaiser Los was a bit different. Yeah, I did some things you didn't want me to do. But I always felt like you were just personally disapproving of the policies. You never actually pulled rank on me. The one time you did pull rank - insisting that Kaiser Los II name you as successor - you got what you wanted. That might've also happened with my addition of the Zeroeth Law to the Charter, I can't remember.

As far as I've seen, it's the same way when you're Kaiser. When I was working on the Treesian merger project, you (the Kaiser) told me you hated the idea, but you also said if the Landsraad passed it you weren't going to pull rank and block it completely. I think that was the right choice, and it ended out working well for everyone.

I think using the Brrapa login when you want to pull rank, and the Erik login when you're just being a normal member of the community with personal likes and dislikes, might make sure that we don't misinterpret what you're saying. I think some of the anti-Erik feeling in the past came when people couldn't tell whether they were supposed to be obeying you or doing their own thing, and if we made it clear that the Erik login is a normal person like the rest of us it'd be easier to sort that out. The Charter thing is an issue, but as long as we all agree beforehand to recognize that "divine right" stands above the charter, it should be fine.

It's true that, as the prophet, you can't force us to listen to you. But you can't really force us to listen to you now. If we really hated you, then as long as we had Ari-the-admin's support we could name a new Kaiser and there'd be nothing you could do about it. No one's ever done that, partly because we don't hate you, and partly because that's not the kind of nation this is.

And by "that's not the kind of nation this is", I mean that the whole problem of trust is a feature and not a bug. You do have to just trust that we won't overthrow you. And we do have to just trust that you won't become a crazy despot. The reason I love Shireroth so much is that, pretty much with no exceptions through Shireroth's whole history, that trust has been justified. We're all friendly enough and respectful enough of the Great Shirerithian Tradition that we WANT to keep the nation running smoothly. We usually defer to you, not grudgingly because there's some law saying that we have to, but because we like you. And when we don't defer to you, you usually realize you've got to give the people what they want sometimes and defer to us. That's why Shireroth's so awesome. We could throw out the Charter and all the laws tomorrow and we'd mostly keep doing what we're doing, because everyone here's pretty decent.

This - take note, newbies - is why tri-cit is so important. If we get lots and lots of citizens who don't really know much about Shireroth, but come here for a few minutes when their primary nation seems boring, then they won't know Erik and they won't be part of the community. They'll be no way to keep them from causing trouble except through lots and lots of laws, and then the whole spark of the Shirerithian system will be ruined. As it is, we've managed to avoid the drifters and the power-hungry madmen; of course there's Ardashir, but SHINE has his palace bugged in so many ways he can't even scratch his nose without us hearing about it.

But an election would be worth a try - just a small one, for an advisory role only - if just to get people to start forming and debating ideas.

[Gman Russell]

As it is, we've managed to avoid the drifters and the power-hungry madmen; of course there's Ardashir,

Thanks! Glad someone else besides me can call him out.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Whose calling anyone out? Have I ever denied being a power hungry madman? Oh sod it no point arguing I guess I'll just have to gas some elves.

[Gman Russell]

Argh! You dirty old man!

[Jonas]

My God! The Steward chosen by the Landsraad? Democracy? Constitutional Monarchy?

[Jacobus Loki]

If I may be so bold-

Perhaps we could have a situation where the Kaiser asks the Dukes for private advice about who the Steward should be. He can then choose to abide by the majority - or not - and who would know, unless the dukes conspired to find out, and then, well, the intrigue factor should be a good one.

.....Jacobus or whoever as Kaiser

Technically, I would be unable to serve as matters stand at this moment. One encumburance I would drop like a hot rock for the chance, and the other could be handled.....

But I enjoy the heck out of being Steward, and would hope to have the time to become good at it....(stumbling around now... who put that wall there?)

I haven'y had much opportunity to see Eric in his eminence gris role, 'twould be interesting......

[hypatias mom]

Duke Jacobus--

I think you are doing a fine job as Steward, and little by little you are winning over the population of Shireroth. I'm not sure they are ready to see you as Kaiser, but as his right-hand man he is breaking you in to all the traditions and ins-and-outs of leadership in this very different country. Who knows? Perhaps you might get the top job some day (with Erik very much overseeing things from the background).

[Kaiser Mors V]

if memory serves, the Landsraad already has the power to elect a Steward if I haven't got one appointed. it's a backup for if I vanish without a trace, and we need a ruler... till a Kaiser can take the throne from those that have the power to claim it...

[Jacobus Loki]

I'm not running for Kaiser. Really. We've got one.

The Duke of Yardistan would have trouble seeing Jacobus as Kaiser, and you know how rebellious they can be.

[Gman Russell]

*sits down and plops his feet up on the table, raising a glass in a toast*


Cheers, mate.

[Nathan of Natopia]

Mr. Horse, what are you feelings about this?



Hmmm.... No, sir. I don't like it.

[Kaiser Mors V]

Okey.. I'm Cancelling this plan then. Both because it was something I thought up while almost asleep the night before. and it seems.. unpopular.. so.. by popular demand.. I shall continue to give no power to popular opinion... ...wait.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

NO! WE DEMAND YOU IGNORE OUR ADVICE!
(and don't you dare listen to that)
(Or that)

[Jonas]

NO! WE DEMAND YOU IGNORE OUR ADVICE!
(and don't you dare listen to that)
(Or that)

Scott is right! Ignore us, Your Niftiness!

If you listen to us, we are democratic. If you don't listen, we will become democratic...
The chose is yours, we will listen to your demand!

[Gman Russell]

Good... good...very good... my pn is going according to...


...

.....



plan.