Size and population

[Scott of Hyperborea]

After making my Hyperborean armed forces chart, I wanted to find a more accurate way to estimate how many men Hyperborea might have in its military. For which I need to know its populatio. For which I need to know the population of everywhere else in Shireroth, so I don't accidentally make my army way too big or way too small to make sense.

According to calculations performed via the MCS map, our land area is around 35 million square kilometers - about twice that of Russia, the real world's largest country. I had no idea we were that big. Someone else might want to verify it (hint: 1 MCS pixel = ~7 miles on a side = ~11 km on a side). The Benacian half is about 15 million (one Russia), the Kildare half is just a little less, and the islands round out the rest. This isn't counting Straylight - counting the ocean would blow the numbers completely out of control.

Russia's population is about 150 million. Since Shireroth is about twice as big as Russia, a simple estimate might be R*2=300 million. However, Russia is 180th out of 190 world countries in population density, 'cause lots of it of it is uninhabited Siberian tundra. The United States is three and a half times denser than Russia. Britain, Germany, and Italy cluster around twenty or thirty times denser than Russia (France is slightly less at 15R).

I see Shireroth as more rural than urban, but it also doesn't have a lot of large uninhabited tundra; north Elwynn and even Hyperborea and Cimmeria are all well-populated. So let's take America as a comparison. A country Shireroth's size with America's population density would have about R*2*3.5= 1.05 billion people.

Splitting Benacia into its three traditional Duchies, Brookshire is about the size of Australia, Goldshire is a bit bigger than India, and Elwynn is around the size of Argentina or Kazakhstan. The Isle (NOT Duchy) of Yardistan is the size of Poland, and larger than Britain! Hyperborea is bigger still, a bit larger than Japan. Quite a few of the Benacian counties are larger than Spain.

Giving everyone America-level population density, Brookshire's got about 210 million people (slightly fewer than America itself). Goldshire's got about 150 million - same as Russia or Japan. Elwynn's got 90 million - around the same as Germany. Most likely these numbers should be shifted in favor of Brookshire and away from Elwynn, since Elwynn's cold and somewhat mountainous. 300-100 -50 seems plausible.

That gives Brookshire 21 mil/county, Goldshire 12 mil/county, and Elwynn 10 mil per county or so. Giving Hyperborea a density equal to Iceland, it's got 1.2 million people; giving it one equal to Norway, it's got 5 million..

Mainland Kildare has about 450 million people divided among its 9 counties, for 50 million a county. Yardistan has about 9 million people on basis of America. Comparing it to the state of Hawaii, which might be more accurate, it's got about 20 million. You can eyeball any other island you're interested in by taking the ratio of its area to Yardistan's and correcting for latitude.

If you're working on recwar armies, feel free to take these numbers into account. I certainly think I need to give Hyperborea some more paladins at this rate.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Very useful - thank you Scot. *Cranks up tank production*

[Kaiser Mors V]

Maybe something between America and Russia in terms of density, depending on Area... But these numbers do please me... I personally always thought of us as a kinda sparse in places in nation.. with parts of Elywnn kinda thin... and Kildare kinda thick in places... and Yardistan.. a bit thin too... being islands and all..

[hypatias mom]

Those numbers seem quite a bit daunting. I had no idea the population density approached anywhere near that level. I saw us with a population, except for or cities, similar to America's interior, not its coastal state levels.

[Kaiser Mors V]

I guess it kinda depends on what era we wanna be in.. modern... turn of the 19th century... colonial? I really can't imagine us with a billion+ people.. How could I rule that many...?

[Gman Russell]

With an iron fist?


....



maybe that's just me.

[Prodigy Almighty]

No... it's me too.

[Jonas]

Kildare: 450 million!

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Well, I always knew that Shireroth was vast but I had no idea that it was to quite that extent. Anyway, thanks for that Scott- most enlightening.
On the plus side, the culture of two of the counties in my Barony hinges on there being vast, trackless wastes. Modan-lach needs that Mongol steppe thing going down, and Lywind needs a plausible reason for most of its populace being inbred yokels.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

The sim population of K'Tzuni should however be slightly more reduced now.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Natürlich.
Do you see a pattern here? I'm not petitioning that you be voted out of office for some simulated violence against my Barony's populace. The reactions of some people here tomy destroying the dam stink of Anthelo-Pedanticism.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

I'm not suggesting you be voted out of office. I'm suggesting you be killed. That is a perfectly orthodox Shirerithian position to take and in no way smells of Anthelo-Pedanticism.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

If you kill me, and I have to posthumously return to micronations as a different username, you'll have to deal with an even longer and unpronouncable Laqi name. Do you want that?
Alright- how's about Mollarahmanhadjimehmethusseinmollabakhrijamijalalludinrumisufidarvishmollabaktismailimaksymajev?

Or I could just say that I'll use more credible names for military operations in future

[Kaiser Mors V]

or just use the same screen name...

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Could do. But Laqi names are much more fun.
Basically. Mongol, Buryat, Tuvinian, Bashkir, Azeri (basically, any Turkic or Mongol names or surnames) + smattering of Muslim or Mongol honour titles such as 'Bataar', 'Lama', 'Molla', 'Hadji', 'Sayyed' etc, + 'ov' ot 'yev' on the end. And there you have your Laqi surname. Here's one I made earlier:

[edit: name too large for forum]

[Ari Rahikkala]

This isn't counting Straylight - counting the ocean would blow the numbers completely out of control.

Straylight's total population is somewhere around 700 000... I do quality before quantity

[Liam conToketi]

1.05 BILLION! That's ridiculous.

Maybe you should consider the fact that Shireroth is quite north and a planet is quite round

Anyway, that destroys Toketi, which I estimated to have a population of...79.25 million people...but we have a bit more land to consider now that we plan on claiming, so that should breach 100million soon...

[Andreas the Wise]

Yeah, the pixel size is for the equator. Everything in Shireroth is to the north (a lot of it quite to the north).

But exact numbers have never worried me anyway, so ...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Hm. You do like making life difficult, don't you?

The problem is that no one really knows what kind of projection the MCS map is. It could be equal-area, in which case my calculations above are valid without modification. Or it could be some other kind of projection, in which case they'd need modification based on what kind of projection it is.

But here's something that might work. Shireroth's average latitude seems around 30 degrees - most of Kildare's below that, but most of Benacia's above. I'm not so good at mathematics, so someone check this for me, but here's how I think it would work.

Call the radius of spherical Micras 1. Draw a radius line from the center of Micras (call it C) to a point in Shireroth along the 30 degree line (call it S) and that equals 1. Now we need to know the radius of the smaller circle with center K parallel to the equator that runs through Shireroth, in order to calculate the circumference of that circle. So we use the Pythagorean theorem on right triangle CSK with hypotenuse = 1 and one side = 1/3. 1/3^2+x^2=1^2 equals 1/9 + x^2 = 1, so x^2 is 8/9 and x ~ .94. The circumference of that circle is .94*2*pi = 1.88pi. The circumference of the equator is 2pi. So a trip around the world at the latitude of Shireroth is only .94 times as long as at the equator. Since both trips go through 1800 pixels, one pixel is only .94 times as wide in Shireroth as at the equator. So I was off only by a factor of .06, assuming it's okay to do the whole calculation as an approximation based on one central point, which it probably isn't.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

I wouldn't be surprised if Shireroth would have a population over one billion. I mean, we've huge industrial bases, a vast number of cities and control vast swathes of territory on Micras. As the equivalent of China, Industrialy and Militarily, 1.05 billion is reasonable for Shireroth.

[Gman Russell]

It's because we rock like Amadeus, and do it twice as hard!

[Harald of Froyalan]

Indeed.

[Gman Russell]

Lets raise a glass in toast to that! TO SHIREROTH THE GREAT!

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

*raises glass*
To Shireroth, the great! Its greatness truly is unparalleled.

[Gman Russell]

Who else will join us in toast?!

[hypatias mom]

To Shireroth, She of the great-hearted citizens! May she ever prosper!

[benkern]

To Shireroth, her citizens, her Kaiser, and Malarbor! May he never get the urge to go on a rampage in Shirekeep!

[Gman Russell]

Wait... which one...?

[Harald of Froyalan]

* Raises horn of mead. *

To Shireroth, the Nation with a proud past, a rocking present and a promising future!!

[Jonas]

To Shireroth, her citizens, het peasants, her Praetor, her Dukes, her Barons, her Counts, her Kaiser and Malarbor!