Pre-Landsraad: Bill: The Mango Map

[Harald of Froyalan]

0. This bill reflects the will of the Landsraad and shall have the force of law.

1. Upon passage of this bill the Mango Map shall become and be the sole official cartographic representation of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth.

2. The Mango Map shall depict any and all land claims that Shireroth has ever held on the map of Micras throughout its long and glorious history provided always that territory belonging to a Sovereign Nation that was only temporarily part of Shireroth and which has lawfully seceded may be omitted from the said Mango Map.

3. Upon passage of this bill the land claims of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth depicted on that map of Micras which is maintained and administered by the Micronational Cartographic Society, hereafter to be referred to as the "MCS Map", shall cease be the official cartographic representation of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth and become and be a historic alternate provided always that the Imperial Republic of Shireroth shall retain the Right to keep possession of its ancestral lands on the said MCS Map.

4. The Imperial Republic of Shireroth reserves unto itself the Right and Power to continue expansions and pursue other activities on the MCS Map.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

The Imperial Republic of Shireroth reserves unto itself the Right and Power to continue expansions and pursue other activities on the MCS Map.

Everything Bill Dusch and the MCS Admins ever said about Shireroth's membership says otherwise- sadly, there is no way we'll be able to regain some of our lost lands- perhaps maybe some of the Northern ones around Hyfrost but as for the ones we owned around Lothlaria and Antica- we can just kiss those goodbye.

The Mango Map shall depict any and all land claims that Shireroth has ever held on the map of Micras throughout its long and glorious history provided always that territory belonging to a Sovereign Nation that was only temporarily part of Shireroth and which has lawfully seceded may be omitted from the said Mango Map.

I'm afraid you've lost me here- will the Mango Map be its own mapping society solely for Shireroth or will it just be a compliation of MCS maps depicting Shireroth's territorial changes?

[Yvain Wintersong]

Does everything here have to be about mangos all the time?

[Harald of Froyalan]

Dear Max,

Thank you for your input.

Everything Bill Dusch and the MCS Admins ever said about Shireroth's membership says otherwise- sadly, there is no way we'll be able to regain some of our lost lands- perhaps maybe some of the Northern ones around Hyfrost but as for the ones we owned around Lothlaria and Antica- we can just kiss those goodbye.

The purpose of that Article is not to express our aspiration to get all those territories back, but to state that Shireroth is not relinquishing it Sovereign Right to put forward expansion claims on the MCS Map.

I'm afraid you've lost me here- will the Mango Map be its own mapping society solely for Shireroth or will it just be a compliation of MCS maps depicting Shireroth's territorial changes?

The Mango Map will be a map of Micras maintainted by Shireroth to depict Shireroth as it should be, with all the territories that historicly as well culturally belonging to Shireroth, including those territories Shireroth lost, like Lothlaria, Cognito, Lesser Automatica, etc.

[Harald of Froyalan]

Does everything here have to be about mangos all the time?

The Mango is a National symbol.

[Yvain Wintersong]

And the kiwi is a symbol of New Zealand, but they still manage to have several government programs that don't have the word "kiwi" in their names.
I think a historical map is a good idea, though, as long as everyone knows it's just scholarship and not irredentism.

[Harald of Froyalan]

Shireroth is not New Zealand.

[Yvain Wintersong]

Shireroth is not New Zealand.

A comparison is not an assertion of identity.

[Harald of Froyalan]

The point of my remark has clearly been missed.

[benkern]

Calm doon Yvain... if you don't like the sweet sweet taste of the juicy mango... suculent when ripened perfectly... *drool* What was I saying?

Anyway this Mango Map seems like a grand idea. Only problem I have is this: will our county/duchy/barony borders be represented truthfully on the Mango Map? Which set of land allocation will we base our territories on?

[Kaiser Mors V]

We'd have to distinguish between what we used to own, what we wish we owned.. and what we actually own..

I'm a lil worried what affect this will have with the MCS...

[benkern]

The MCS shouldn't be affected by this... but then again there are always some people.

[Jacobus Loki]

Cognito

Cognito was retroceeded to the Imperator Rex Emeritus, and by treaty it is part of the Federal Republic of Cyberia.

However, as I happen to be the Imperator Rex Emeritus, and (ahem) have some influence in Dunkinoplis, ?????????

[Kaiser Mors V]

Yeah.. the MCS likes to get bitchy... despite our many years of loyalty...


I'm not really that sure I see the point of this map though... Is it just for history purposes? or what?

[Aurangzeb Khan]

The Mango Map will, if I understand this correctly display the Shireroth Irredentia, the unredeemed lands lost to the heathens with their laughable notion determining land allocations on the basis of an activity/pixel ratio. It will show the world as it should be not the world as it is and as such represents a political statement concerning what the Empire should look like, rather than a unilateral attempt to secede from the shared fictional narrative maintained by the MCS.

Babkha for instance could issue a map detailing the correct borders of the satrapies on Eura with all the barbarian interlopers purged but that would not make any difference to reality other than perhaps to make Spangle unduly paranoid.

[Jacobus Loki]

Shireroth Irredentia

That which was our shall be ours again!

Quoting Cloud William, Chief. Also son of Chief. Guardian of the Holies, Speaker of the Holy Words, Leader of Warriors Star Trek, The Omega Glory

[Ari Rahikkala]

I do... not like this. Sure, it'd be nice to set my eyes upon a map showing all of Shireroth's greatness again (*), but I agree with Yvain in that it should be created just for scholarly reasons. We were there to create the MCS, I think it's simply right that we should give the MCS staff our support even if they only allow us a slightly overinflated amount of land (**).

That is, unless they get around to handling my claim for Straylight and reject it. If that happens, vengeance and mangoes will be served .


(*)
Q: How many Shirithians does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Just one, but in the great old days of the Republic, hundreds of servants would change a thousand lightbulbs at our slightest whim! (***)

(**)
Actually, I think the amount of land we currently have is just about right, except for the lack of Araxion which makes the shape of our land on Benacia look strange. I just think that all the other nations should be allowed to get the same amount of land for the same amount of activity, too. There mightn't be enough spare land on the map for it, but as I look at it right now I can say they could get pretty far - Keltia seems to have more unoccupied than occupied land, for starters...

(***)
Sorry, I watched some Babylon 5 tonight...

[hypatias mom]

Thank you, Lando.

[Kaiser Mors V]

Well remembered...


What if we made a joint map of Shireroth and Babkha lands that should exist.. As I recall there would be no overlap...

But Ari has some points..

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

This will entail our leaving the MCS? If so- No, No, No, and, furthermore No.
We must, as Ari says, respect the MCS's judgement- as a former council member for the MCS myself, I can say without doubt that Shireroth's position on the map is one of the main things which makes it attractive and keeps it looking professional. Shireroth and the MCS are intertwined- if they made us loose some territory, it was, let's face it, only fair and they were taking a risk themselves. If Shireroth left the MCS it would be far more a catastrophic blow to them than to us.
Still, I'm firmly on the side of Ari here- Shireroth must stay on the MCS. If we leave it just to 'restore us to our former glory' as Harald implies here, we'll look like bad sports. We really just ought to stay on the map and apply for more land through the official channels- I'm sure that we'll be allowed it when they see how much more active we are and how much more work we've done on developing Shireroth recently. I mean, we haven't named our Kaiser 'the reformer' or 'the saviour' for nothing, have we?

[benkern]

Erik, if we do that, make sure the Anticans are invited. Despite their lack of... well, you know, forums, we all need someone to go to war with. Plus I think they're getting tired of never being told about the new maps that are coming out before hand.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

For the love of the local equivalent of Zurvan... this has nothing to do with leaving the mcs. it is a theoretical exercise in as much as it is a statement of an ideal, namely depicting the empire at its maximum territorial extent. it has no more relevance than the quaint argentine custom of calling the falkland islands the malvinas.

you never know, such an exercise might inform our future diplomatic moves and be bad news for our neighbours but in terms of our actual relations with the mcs - zero impact, it changes nothing.

[Jacobus Loki]

I agree with the Khan.

Most micronations are ephemeral. If we are patient, those who hold our land will whither, and we can pick stuff up. Or annex them willingly.

[Kaiser Mors V]

Jacobus has a good point.. "We solve all our problems by outliving them.. even death."

[Jacobus Loki]

It works. Water on a rock, drip, drip.......

[Kaiser Mors V]

Are we the water.. or the rock?

[hypatias mom]

Yes

[Kaiser Mors V]

We are the Water AND the Rock, and the Tree that grows forth to claim the Sky.



wtf.... what was that about?

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Although water is liquid and the rock solid the water over time errodes the rock away to nothing. Therefore Shireroth is the water and our opponents the rock, eventually we will wear them down.

[Kaiser Mors V]

Thank you... and to think.. I was sober....