The Pragmatic Duties of Nobles

[Kaiser Mors V]

As promised...

For much of the history of Shireroth, Nobles really had no duties outside the Landsraad, and any they chose to make up in their subdivision. Subdivisions were created out of need, so when created they tended to promptly get things like flags and "cultures"

Now we have divisions before we have people, and lots of empty places.

Further, in the past the website was the domain of a minister alone, and thus rarely got updated.

Now we have the Wiki, and anyone can make and update a page for a division as need be.

Thus now, many duties of ministers are passing to nobles, from MiniInfo to MoMA. As it is my plan to downplay the Ministries, and pass more responsibility and effective power to nobles.. I'm decentralizing the empire..

So I shall no enumerate what I feel are the Pragmatic Duties of all nobles in Shireroth. Those administrative things that a noble must now attend to. And this applies to all nobles from Counts to dukes..

Concerning the Wiki.
*Make a wiki page for your division, look at the templates that are made already and use them.
*Make maps, flags, coats of arms... and other fancy things to help with presentation.
*Keep your page up to date, as much as possible. Write histories, cultures... demographics.

The Forum
*Organize your subordinate divisions into Baronies and assign Barons (Dukes only)
*Moderate your fiefdom, keep things civil.. or not... as makes sense for your culture.
*Make sure flags and banners are correct if they are not, make a request to the MiniInt saying exactly what you need done, in a new thread. Be polite.

Culture/Military
*Create/organize the militia in you subdivision, talk to your barons and counts, organize them by subdivision. This is now expected since I am dismantling the old system of military organization and passing it down to the Nobles to run the armies of the nation. I will speak more on this later somewhere else..
*Create an outline for culture.. this will proly build up from the county level and spread upward. This ties in with the wiki duties.

Government
*Organize/outline the government of your subdivision, if any (looking at Yardistan... ) Create councils... legislatures.. courts.. as you need and see fit.. Make titles.. select heirs... assign emissaries... barons.. etc.. Create Duchy level ministry position.. but have fun with it... But give people things to do...

This is more or less an outline of what is expected of nobles. Counts don't have much on their plates aside from some basic stuff on the wiki.. but Barons and Dukes do have a number of duties. Thus with title comes responsibility..

If people like, we could create to-do lists and stuff.. "So your a count, here's a list of things that may need getting done". This could help noobs..

[Andreas the Wise]

This actually sounds like a good plan. Obviously things life foreign affairs are still handled separate to all this, but it gives more practical purpose for nobles.

My one thought is on the Military. It's immensely amusing to have themed subdivision units from the right time period and so on ... but in an international war they either won't be allowed (too fantastic) or will be no help (like plain archers. Archers in Kevlar, maybe ...) ... to that end, should people have two types of armies (regional and national) or should there be a general to coordinate it all? Or am I just thinking way too far ahead?

[Kaiser Mors V]

no.. you have a good point.... I honestly am not sure... Traditionally the Militia only fought internal wars.. and MoMA handles external ones... Perhaps we should focus on relatively modern armies... maybe.. mid 1900's.. WW2 through to the 60's? perhaps... Maybe if we are using SNARL we can figure out what era they are working with...

Then again... many forces can be converted.. calvary can be turned into people on motor cycles.. for example.. or helicopters.. or such... Archers turned into artillery... Infantry given guns... I personally keep away from magic and stuff... and discourage it's use for recwar... but if that is used it is easy to deal with too...

or.. maybe we should maintain the Imperial Army... but focus on the Militias...

I'm trying to think of how I deal with Monty Crisco being paratroopers... I guess I'd turn them into Archers if we went mid evil... or into mounted infantry if we went 1800's...

[Andreas the Wise]

Well how about saying no magic troops at all, for now (unless you're going to try and do them under the Toki/Nova system, where you'd actually have other nations recognise them ... well, two), and then you'd at least have units you could use, but might have to be converted ...

Or, as per my other suggestion, have two forces - regional militia for internal wars (everyone likes making up units for internal wars) and then standardised modern troops for international. It's not too hard - a lot can carry over. Besides, I know from experience that people are often perfectly happy to use the troops they want in internal wars, but make a new orbat for international ones (and often it's better to make new orbats for them anyway when you know exactly what you're dealing with). Keep MoMA on for international wars, but it stays in the side lines for most of the time ...

[Yvain Wintersong]

Shireroth has both very technologically advanced areas (like Straylight) and very medieval areas (like my own Barony). There also seem to be other countries more magical than we are (like Gralus) and less magical than we are (like Lovely). If we're going to simulate things, we have to find a reason for that.

I was recently reading a book called A Fire Upon The Deep by Vernor Vinge. It's set in a galaxy divided into Zones of Thought - areas whose geography mysteriously limits the level of technology possible there. For some reason, the high technology created by the advanced societies on the edge of the galaxy doesn't work in the center of the galaxy (whose own inhabitants are backwards and low-tech).

A system like that could work in Shireroth. Maybe there's some sort of telluric current under the ground in certain areas. Where the current is weak, technology is easy to build and use, but magic is impossible. Where the current is strong, magic is easy to discover and use, but most technology stops working. So Straylight is very high tech, but when the Straylightians try to import their technology to Ynnraile, it mostly just stops working, and there's nothing they can do.

This would also solve the flow of time problem Ari Rahikkala talks about in Straylight. The reason Straylight has never developed technology stronger than that which it actually has is that the telluric currents there, although some of the weakest in all of Shireroth, are still too strong. Or, if Ari wants to still have scientists making discoveries, he might have the telluric currents shifting. In the past, Straylight achieved high technology, but then a strong telluric current came, wiped everything out, and they were reduced to a barely industrial civilization. When the current receded, they started building up again, bringing them to where they are today.

In a war, we would need a map of the telluric currents of the world. If we invaded Gralus, we would need strong magic troops, because our technology would stop working in their stronger telluric field. But if we invaded Lovely (don't, you wouldn't want it!) we would need strong technological troops, since magic doesn't work in Lovely. There might be another country whose currents only allow it a nineteenth century tech level, and if we invaded them we'd need to equip our troops with nineteenth-century technology, or something similar.

I guess that could be unwieldly, but it would be interesting to work out.

[Kaiser Mors V]

proly to unwieldy.. though it does give me some ideas for fictional history stuff.. (like the fall of the Cas Modon Empire...)

But having two systems seperate would proly work best... Then again... just having people make up 2 armies would proly work best..

I've also noticed a trend though.. over the last.. oh.. 4 years.. recwars in shireroth have been becoming more technilogically advanced.. we used to do medievil level.. and have gradually moved to more modern warfare.. last I paid attention we kinda have early 1900's to 1956 tech for combat internally.. with the continued use of swords for various people...

[Chrimigules]

Combine old and new.

Have archers... who fire arrows with explosive tips, a la Rambo.

[Kaiser Mors V]

That.. COULD work... but they won't have much range...

[Nick Foghorn Leghorn]

Last time I was in M, I seem to remember something about dragons, swords, a few nagant rifles, and Steven with a ship mounted artillery cannon...

[Kaiser Mors V]

Hell if I know... I've been gone most of the last 2 years...

[Andreas the Wise]

Shireroth has both very technologically advanced areas (like Straylight) and very medieval areas (like my own Barony). There also seem to be other countries more magical than we are (like Gralus) and less magical than we are (like Lovely). If we're going to simulate things, we have to find a reason for that.

I was recently reading a book called A Fire Upon The Deep by Vernor Vinge. It's set in a galaxy divided into Zones of Thought - areas whose geography mysteriously limits the level of technology possible there. For some reason, the high technology created by the advanced societies on the edge of the galaxy doesn't work in the center of the galaxy (whose own inhabitants are backwards and low-tech).

A system like that could work in Shireroth. Maybe there's some sort of telluric current under the ground in certain areas. Where the current is weak, technology is easy to build and use, but magic is impossible. Where the current is strong, magic is easy to discover and use, but most technology stops working. So Straylight is very high tech, but when the Straylightians try to import their technology to Ynnraile, it mostly just stops working, and there's nothing they can do.

This would also solve the flow of time problem Ari Rahikkala talks about in Straylight. The reason Straylight has never developed technology stronger than that which it actually has is that the telluric currents there, although some of the weakest in all of Shireroth, are still too strong. Or, if Ari wants to still have scientists making discoveries, he might have the telluric currents shifting. In the past, Straylight achieved high technology, but then a strong telluric current came, wiped everything out, and they were reduced to a barely industrial civilization. When the current receded, they started building up again, bringing them to where they are today.

In a war, we would need a map of the telluric currents of the world. If we invaded Gralus, we would need strong magic troops, because our technology would stop working in their stronger telluric field. But if we invaded Lovely (don't, you wouldn't want it!) we would need strong technological troops, since magic doesn't work in Lovely. There might be another country whose currents only allow it a nineteenth century tech level, and if we invaded them we'd need to equip our troops with nineteenth-century technology, or something similar.

I guess that could be unwieldly, but it would be interesting to work out.

That's a very interesting idea. The problem - some people in Gralus really like advanced technology. I mean really advanced. And they're the same people, generally, who love magic. Besides, nobody else outside our nations would agree to it. Two armies is probably best.

Oh, and Lovely's virtually a no-show as an MCS nation, they've dropped all their land down to just 3 islands. Small point

[Jonas]

Andreas, you're back... for the moment!

[Ari Rahikkala]

I think he's busy preparing to leave, not sure if he's actually left yet or not...


As for Yvain's idea, I wouldn't be as quick to dismiss as Erik was. Yes, it's strange and new, and it's got some problems - most significantly what Andreas already pointed out, that magic and technology do not need to be mutually exclusive. I'm going to consider incorporating some form of it into Straylight's history at least, though it probably won't be called telluric currents...

[Yvain Wintersong]

Andreas' objections are good ones. Perhaps there could be a polarization in the telluric currents. Those strongly polarized one way would prevent the existence of magic, those strongly polarized the other way would prevent the existence of technology, unpolarized currents would prevent both, and in the absence of any currents at all, both would flourish. Under that system, Shireroth would have various currents in various places, and Gralus would have small, almost insignificant currents (I don't want to say no currents at all, because if I keep to the Vinge, anywhere with no currents at all would instantly develop a Singularity and become indescribable. Whoa. A techno-magical Singularity. Someone needs to write a book about that.)

Duke Rahikkala, from your wikis on Straylight I suspect you're much morecreative than I am. I'd like to know what you're thinking of replacing the currents with, and if it's a good enough idea I'll abandon my current theory and switch to that. Then we can improve the theory and re-present it to the Kaiser and any foreign authorities who would need to approve it (the king of Gralus? Is there any worldwide association that handles this?).

[Kaiser Mors V]

personally.. I like keeping things a bit simpler then time current things and or.. tech currents.. or the what not.. there are easier way to explain all this....

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Elwynn has had Grenadier-Archers since 2004/2005, the Anticans nearly ran into them on the way north from Musica during the War of Vengeance, but sadly they didn't get past their artillery duel with Ozarka's dragons before the internal logic of that war fell apart.