There are too many truths in the book of lies

[Ari Rahikkala]

OK, this is an issue that I'd like cleared up because I've been constantly bumping into it while trying to edit the wiki.

We've got this tradition of keeping Shirithian fantasy and reality apart. Recwar results are decided before the war itself starts, nobody claims that we actually own any land even though we're a big bad blob of crimson on Micras, Kaiserial abdication is played out in the fantasy world but its real effects occur in the real Shireroth, and I keep wondering which post of mine Bill disagreed with anyway...

... so, given this, am I correct in assuming that the simulated Shireroth refers to the fantasy Shireroth? And what unambiguous synonyms for "real" and for "fantasy" do we have? I really do have to write an article for this on the ShireWiki - like the whole gender-neutral pronoun issue, it's something that I think we haven't really been paying enough attention to lately.

[Kaiser Mors V]

I.... don't really know...

I think we just kinda weave real and fantasy together as we need to to write fictional histories.. But when it comes to real histories... we.. well... point out that something was just "Erik" changing names.. or.. something was just a recwar...

Actually.. I might even claim there two be 3 levels to shireroth... The RP-fantasy level.. which as the "death" of kaisers.. and recwars.. and stuff.. the err.. Simulated/real shireroth which has the non-RP stuff going on. the actual governmental workings, the nobility.. and then a level that extends off-line.. and makes up conventions.. get together.. and my own delusions about Shireroth being in some odd way.. real...

[Andreas the Wise]

I like the distiction of Real and Simulated history. Real is specifically stuff that happen on the forum and so on. Simulated is anything else, from fantasy to the aftermath of Recwars.

Eg: Saying Shireroth won a Recwar and how the people rejoiced and all annexed a chair is Simulated History
Saying specifically that Ari posted the final move that knocked out the opponents navy after an MSN conversation with Mors ... that's "Real" history.

[Neike Taika-Tessaro]

Hm, well, if it helps, I'm an avid roleplayer and so I have to group things into In-Character ("simulated", as you put it) and Out-Of-Character ("real world", as you put it) a lot. ...which... might be the unambiguous wording you were looking for, even...? *watches topic, curious, blinks*

[Kaiser Mors V]

in and out of character makes sense...

[Ari Rahikkala]

That doesn't really express the layering properly, though. I mean, in roleplaying, the IC world and OOC world are almost separate, and you only make up IC explanations for OOC events in an emergency. Here they're intertwined, so that a spam attack gets called the Battle of Cimmeria, and the tradition of Kaisers only ruling for a couple of months at most is justified by the limits of human lifetime... so, the terms in-character and out-of-character are just a little bit too... *clean*.

Although Erik's view seemed strange to me at first, I'm... I'm coming around. Right now as I'm writing this post, for instance, I'm definitely not acting as the Duke of Straylight even though I technically have that title, so this post (and this whole thread) is basically in... hm... the outer layer?

How about this division? I think it would make a useful set of general guidelines, although of course it shouldn't be taken too seriously or it will just limit people's creativity:


The inner layer of Shireroth is the fantasy world. In the inner layer, we have plenty of land on Micras (which is a real planet with real people... and Microns, and elves, and talking dogs, etc. on it). The people corresponding to us are actually families of people (although only the Kaisers are considered momentous enough to actually play the succession out). Some of us don't really even have any one person corresponding to us in the inner layer at any one time. Time passes at a rate of one year per day in outer layers, and the calendar is the Shirithian calendar (with ASC?).

The middle layer of Shireroth is the simulation world. It's the one where we all have all these titles. Things like playing out deference to authority, making laws and degrees and such, deciding results of RecWars to be played out in the inner layer, etc. happen here.

The outer layer is just us, the forum, conventions, chats, etc..

Events in a layer outwards from where you're working are not visible; you simply weave them together into the world and explain them as natural occurrences. Events in a layer inwards from where you're working *are* visible, and you are free to use them for inspiration (but can usually ignore them if you want to).

[Kaiser Mors V]

That sounds about right to me...

[Andreas the Wise]

A little compex, but it works ...

[Kaiser Mors V]

Life is complex...

[Andreas the Wise]

I suppose the answer to Life, the Universe and Everything is 42i ...


Sorry, terrible Maths joke ...

[Kaiser Mors V]

But.. that's an imaginary number...

[Aurangzeb Khan]

That doesn't really express the layering properly, though. I mean, in roleplaying, the IC world and OOC world are almost separate, and you only make up IC explanations for OOC events in an emergency. Here they're intertwined, so that a spam attack gets called the Battle of Cimmeria, and the tradition of Kaisers only ruling for a couple of months at most is justified by the limits of human lifetime... so, the terms in-character and out-of-character are just a little bit too... *clean*.

Although Erik's view seemed strange to me at first, I'm... I'm coming around. Right now as I'm writing this post, for instance, I'm definitely not acting as the Duke of Straylight even though I technically have that title, so this post (and this whole thread) is basically in... hm... the outer layer?

How about this division? I think it would make a useful set of general guidelines, although of course it shouldn't be taken too seriously or it will just limit people's creativity:


The inner layer of Shireroth is the fantasy world. In the inner layer, we have plenty of land on Micras (which is a real planet with real people... and Microns, and elves, and talking dogs, etc. on it). The people corresponding to us are actually families of people (although only the Kaisers are considered momentous enough to actually play the succession out). Some of us don't really even have any one person corresponding to us in the inner layer at any one time. Time passes at a rate of one year per day in outer layers, and the calendar is the Shirithian calendar (with ASC?).

The middle layer of Shireroth is the simulation world. It's the one where we all have all these titles. Things like playing out deference to authority, making laws and degrees and such, deciding results of RecWars to be played out in the inner layer, etc. happen here.

The outer layer is just us, the forum, conventions, chats, etc..

Events in a layer outwards from where you're working are not visible; you simply weave them together into the world and explain them as natural occurrences. Events in a layer inwards from where you're working *are* visible, and you are free to use them for inspiration (but can usually ignore them if you want to).

Interesting this theory also works on that micronational simulation known as Earth where Ari Rahikkala is Ari Rahikkala on the outer-layer, peeling back the next layer reveals Ari Rahikkala to be Robert Shea and Robert Anton Wilson, peeling the next layer back reveals a chap called Hagbard who claims to be a Norwegian-Sicillian but is actually as Finnish as Lordi. I would reveal what I found when I peeled back Lordi but my hand was bitten by a Shoggoth... and now I have to lie down while undead Saddam Hussein covers for me on the forums.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Standards are pogo sticks!

* hops on his standards *

[Andreas the Wise]

But.. that's an imaginary number...

In the complex plane ...