WHAT?!?! CIVILIZATION?!?!?!?!?!

[Braden Indianensis]

I always find it interesting to look at peoples' ideas about their own civilization. Example, here in America. I cannot tell you how often I hear people refer to the ancient Romans (and even the ancient Greeks, if you can believe it) as savages. Savages! People in this country think they're very advanced. But we're not really. We have electricity and gunpowder weapons. We have gadgets, like iPods, and TVs, and computers, but really, we are not anymore civilized than the peoples of antiquity. In fact, looking at 80% of the people with whom I attend school, as well as most of the people I see on television or simply walking down the street, I would say we're actually less civilized than the ancient Greeks and Romans, the Babylonians, the Egyptians, the Persians. Thoughts?

[AngelGuardian93]

Agreed. We have this odd way of thinking that civilization is advanced through techonology, but that is only a symptom, not the cause. This place would descend to the level other places are commonly at if we lost our techology...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

"Civilized" is a hard word to define. But going by a fuzzy, "what I think it means" type of discussion, I would say we are more civilized than the Romans, at least. The Romans kept slaves, enjoyed bloodsports, and were quite happy with invading indiscriminately and massacring anyone who seemed likely to resist. We've got civil rights, don't have anything much more violent than wrestling, and make up long chains of convoluted logic when we invade somewhere.

As for Greece, I would say it's a tie.

[Braden Indianensis]

OK, it was sort of foolish to say we were more civilized than the Romans . However, just looking at average, everyday people in America, would you say that they were more or less civilized than average, everyday people in ancient Greece (considering what is known about the day-to-day lives of people at that time and taking into account the fact that civilization is an uncertain concept and different for everybody)?

[Ryan]

It's difficult to define "civilised" when certain aspects of our society have degraded to points far surpassing barbarity, whereas others have exceeded social conscienciousness.

We have people who kidnap and sell children on the black market today. But we have our civil rights. We have people who are so poor that they're selling their organs to hospitals just to get some cash. But we have social security.

You see what I mean?

[Hypatia Agnesi]

We no longer have colosseums, but we have reality TV.

[osmose1000]

I wonder if they had people who spent their time condemning the present for even remotely thinking that perhaps they're a bit farther along than those from the past back in Rome.

[21st Century Stjepan]

Civilization is barbarism with postal addresses.

[Kaiser Letifer II]

We are all just animals.... Trying to be Human.

[Braden Indianensis]

We no longer have colosseums, but we have reality TV.

Survivor v. the gladiatorial spectacles.

Somehow I'd rather see real blood congealing on the sands of the coliseum floor than ketchup drying in the backlot of CBS Studios.

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Well, Surviror is actually filmed on location, and it's often interesting (though I only watched maybe 3 seasons, when it was new). Big Brother, on the other hand, is indeed filmed on a backlot.

I think the first major lesson the producers of Survivor learned, though, was that lethargic, starving survivors make for bad TV. They put Surivior: Africa on a fucking GAME PRESERVE on the dry savannah somewhere, with no edible plants whatsoever. The poor contestants couldn't hunt anything, and they had some bits of cornmeal or rice (that were provided) as their only food source (which is enough to barely get by, but not enough to give you enough energy to generate drama). They also gave one tribe a wet mud hole (which I believe had animal feces in it much of the time) as their only water source. Sure, they'd be boiling it, but that is just unnecessarily gross.

Oddly, Survivor: Australia was also in a nature preserve, but they at least had some nearby edible plants and fish from the nearby river to live off of. That one had much more drama and energy than the African one.

Lesson learned by CBS: you can make the contestants suffer, but they need to remain energetic in order to make for good TV.

[Kaiser Letifer II]

Ultimate Fighter...

[21st Century Stjepan]

I love MMA (and it really isn't the no-holds barred style fighting that it was stereotyped as back in the 90's. It's no more brutal than most combat sports and significantly less dangerous than boxing)

[Kaiser Letifer II]

MXC! WHOOOO!!!