Seperation of Wiki and State

[Fax Celestis]

The inherent problem within this is that Shireroth certainly has some rights as to what is said on the Wiki, as it is on our webspace, we pay for it, and we set it up.I do think it should be internationalized, but I don't think that we should relinquish control to the universe. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[Sebastien Alexandre]

We always talk about wanting to maintain our position as the head of the Anglo-Phone Micronational Sector, well, here's one more chance to remain dominant. Surely we'd get some points here and there for keeping the largest Wiki around under our heel, no? Plus, as was said, this come's out of Shireroth's pocket, it should stay within our grasp.

[osmose1000]

I'm not good at designing big formats, so I'll just lay it out plainly.This act will completely seperate the Microwiki from being under the management of Shireroth officially, and will dissociate any positions, such as Minfo and MoRE, from having the responsibility to manage Microwiki.Microwiki is supposed to be a neutral organization, and having it under the administration of the Kaiser is the last chain holding it on to Shireroth. In order to be the true Microwiki, this chain has to be broken.Microwiki will come under it's own administration - all current mods will stay as mods. The executive administrator shall be Fax, and I shall be a normal administrator. All current Microwiki policies will be transferred as well. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[RicLyon]

I agree with Ozarka here.We shouldn't just let the Wiki slip out of our hands. Sure, we should avoid unnecessary government interference, but the Wiki is an excellent piece of prestige. Only having the Wiki will have people come and find us. "Ooo" they'll think. "A grand nation, that is. Able to host a wiki an' all." For the sake of patriotism, keep the status quo. Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

[osmose1000]

It's not going to fall out of our hands - all the mods are Shirerithian. Fax and Me would head it. We just wouldn't have wierd and very-bad looking things like the official position of wiki master being given out by the Kaiser.There's being the nifty-est nation around, and being selfish. Keeping the wiki is selfish. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Sebastien Alexandre]

It's in our hands, for now. But what happens if something happens and a majority of a DIFFERENT nation comes to power over the moderation? Shireroth would have no excuse to take back control.

[Gryphon the Pure]

I definitely do NOT want the Wiki to become the next MCS disaster.And I have to agree with Oz on this - I would rather not lend the possibility of a foreigner operating what is probably the largest section of our webspace.

[osmose1000]

I don't think you people understand the concept of having me and Fax heading it. Me. Fax. Not a foreigner, me and Fax.If you isolationists would like to know, by the way, the GC is discussing pulling out of the wiki and starting their CommonWiki because of this. And I've heard from other nations in the past about how weary they are of Shireroth's domination of the wiki. Sure, we have the right to be head mods because it's our webspace, but having our legal system have power over something that's supposed to be an intermicronational information source?I'm actually insulted that the both of you have such little confidence in me and Fax that you think we would hand over the wiki to some foreigner to own. What would be the point of that? They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Sebastien Alexandre]

It's not that we don't think you can handle it, but we also think it might change hands in six months or so.

[Fax Celestis]

Alright, what if we had a mod from each of the nations who have added to the Wiki, and two (or three) from Shireroth? Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[RicLyon]

That'd be fine. Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Then.. it's.. still.. under.. Shirerithian.. legislation....Because the only way to ENFORCE that law is to keep it under our heel.

[osmose1000]

No. The last thing I want is going out and adding a bunch of mods to "represent" the other nations. The reason organizations like the MCS succeed is because the leadership is small. I don't want some sort of compromise to this situation. It's either Yes or No. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Look, the Micronational Cartography Society is pretty much over run with dirty Babkans of the Great Satan (GC) well, here is a chance for the Grand Commonwealth's greatest rival, the Imperial Republic of Shireroth to even the playing field.If Babkha can keep the MCS under it's heel, why can't we keep something we pay for under OUR heel?

[Fax Celestis]

Why do they think there's a Shirithian dominance anyway? It's not like we're stopping people from using it. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[osmose1000]

Because we aren't going to moan about bias and play dirty. Perhaps you can come back and discuss with us after realizing that we shouldn't make big decisions just to get back at a friendly rival. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Moose, Fax, whether you like it or not you have to realize that you are probably THE only two people that will vote Aye for this.

[Fax Celestis]

I'll call you on that.Greater Brookshire asserts its' position as Aye - 6.Eat me, Oz. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[osmose1000]

Yardistan throws a hearty AYE (7) and echos Fax's sentiment. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Well, Lords and Ladies, are we going to allow our enemies to get a one up on us and slowly take OUR wiki that WE pay for?I'm certainly not.The Barony of Southern Hallucination - Nay (1)

[AngelGuardian93]

The Barony of Amity and Mirioth votes nay (3).I don't wish to discourage use of the wiki, but why would they pull out? We don't censure unless its too small... There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Gryphon the Pure]

The Douche of Preoccupied Kildare casts a firm but gentle HELL THE FUCK NO (0)

[Shyriath]

I trust Fax and Moose to run the Wiki; and as Scott mentioned in the Front Gate, the measure is largely symbolic, just phrasing the status quo a different way.Still, the more I hear about the REASONS this bill has to be proposed, the less I like of it. I like the Babkhans and other GCers well enough in a personal way, but threatening us with their own separate wiki to get us to knuckle under is dirty politics. I won't say "no" yet. But I will have to think about this quite hard. And if by some chance this passes, I believe it would be wise for the MicroWiki leadership to avoid further concessions to such influences.

[osmose1000]

Those are exactly the reasons for this bill. It also serves as a strategic stopping point - this is as far as we will go for approval among the masses. If the GC continues to protest the wiki, then Shireroth will have to reexamine it's relationship with Babkha and the other member states of the GC that protest the Microwiki - how much faith can one put in an ally that tries to dictate your nation? They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Gryphon the Pure]

Quote:this is as far as we will go for approval among the massesWell DUH! That's as far as we CAN go. If we do this, there's nothing left that we are actually able to do, and we lose the power to bend the Microwiki to appease its critics even if we wanted to.I'm going to need a better argument than "the farthest we will go is to disassociate ourselves completely" before I can agree with your logic.

[Fax Celestis]

That's not true, Joe.We can still bend the Wiki as we wish: after all, all the mods right now are Shirithian. We still own the site, and we still pay for it's existence.If they want more power after this bill, they can pay us for it. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[RicLyon]

Elwynn abstains from voting. Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal stiEdited by: RicLyon at: 9/24/05 3:29

[osmose1000]

I think you still have to put your number of votes to abstain, Ric.How farther can we go? Hmmmm, let's see...1.Purposefully making people from other nations moderators to increase "representation" within Microwiki.2.Creating a council to make decisions, consisting of people from different nations.3.Limiting the power of our current leaders by making actual rules that limit their power just to prevent favoritism.4.Sharing webspace with another nation under the premise of "sharing the burden" but with the added benefit of letting another nation have a bit of the "right" to say what goes on there.5.Removing Shirerithians from office and installing foreigners. Near to 1, but more hideous.I could do any of those to please the Great Satan, or any other nation, for that matter. I've definately heard them whining about no GC-ian mods. But I will never appoint a mod that does not deserve the role and who doesn't earn my trust as being worthy of the role first. And I trust Fax to do the same. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Gryphon the Pure]

Are you guys fucking retarded? If we give up all control of an organization to an independent party, even if that independent party happens to be, at the time of secession, members of our state, then there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING MORE THAT WE CAN DO SINCE THE ORGANIZATION IS NO LONGER UNDER OUR JURISDICTION.Every single one of those things you list, Mike, are things which would be beyond our power if this bill passes.NEVER MIND that it will be supposedly going under control of people who are currently Shirithians. I read that and I read INDEPENDENT PARTY because that's what it IS. This is not a bill to put Mike and James in charge of the wiki, it's a bill to relinquish control of a Shirithian organization to an independent party.What was it that angry mob used to say? Down with the evil land-giving-away Kaiser? Revolt? Rebellion? Well this is different in one and only one way—THE CESSATION OF A FUNCTIONAL SHIRITHIAN ORGANIZATION DOES GREATER DAMAGE TO SHIREROTH THAN THE CESSATION OF A GROUP OF PIXELS ON A MAP WHICH EVEN IN FICTIONAL CULTURE ARE INACTIVE AND WORTHLESS. If giving away land was enough to incite rebellion, should not giving away one of its most esteemed organizations do at least as much?

[RicLyon]

You have a point... Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti