Contact

[jdsager]

To the citizens of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth and Kaiser Los III,Hi my name is John D. Sager and as some of you know I am working on a small state called Comstokia (http://www.comstokia.com). I am not going to be actively recruiting new citizens as instead I want to try and just develop the country with certain political goals and as a cultural outlet. After spending some time reading up on Shireroth, the following passage on the Ministry of the Exterior web page caught my attention:“If you represent a smaller micronation that needs protection, support, or friendship, consider being annexed by Shireroth. We can provide you with military, technical, or just general help, and you can retain almost all internal freedom. Contact the MiniEx if you're interested.”I spoke to Kaiser Los III about this statement and possibly its application to Comstokia and I suggested the possibility of being some kind of protectorate. I will not have five citizens which I was told is standard for a Duchy. So the Kaiser told me there was nothing for this type of entity, but that it could be created. He said to create some sort of bill in which to make the “protectorate” type entity.My reasons for doing this are to have more inter-community involvement (being one person in a country can get lonely) while maintaining internal autonomy. I can also avoid foreign relations for the time being and focus on domestic development. Ultimately, this would effectively bring Comstokia under Shireroth control, however, this would only be in the areas of foreign policy and civil rights. I do not know how citizenship would work, but I’d assume that Comstokians therefore become some kind of citizen of Shireroth. The one condition which I must insist upon (other things can be changed I guess) is that every 3 months from the date of signing, Comstokia has the option to regain all its autonomy and effectively become independent, and retain its land as granted by the MCS. Any citizens would still remain Shireroth citizens until they emigrate according to your laws. That’s it for now, thanks for reading, I am looking forward to seeing some feedback on the idea and then hopefully we will know where to go from there.- John D. Sageracting Hertug of Comstokia

[osmose1000]

Didn't we have protectorates before? Either way, it sounds like a good idea to me. Welcome to Shireroth, by the way. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Fax Celestis]

...so like the US and Puerto Rico, then?Sounds like a plan to me. Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

[jdsager]

Heres a treaty idea.TREATY OF SHIREROTH-COMSTOKIA(Multi-lateral treaty making the Hertugi of Comstokia a PROTECTORATE of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth for a minimum of 3 months.)UPON signing by the Kaiser of Shireroth and the acting Hertug of Comstokia, the following will go into effect. The following clauses are non-negoiatable after signing.1) Comstokia will become a Protectorate of Shireroth.2) All citizens of Comstokia who own Comstokian citizenship while Comstokia is a protectorate of Shireroth are citizens of Shireroth until they emigrate, or their citizenship is officially cancelled. 3) Being Shirerothian citizens, citizens of Comstokia hold all rights given to those citizens of Shireroth except that Comstokians cannot hold positions of nobility in Shireroth while also owning Comstokian citizenship. This can be altered at a later date by the Landsraad. 4) Comstokia forfeits soverignty, granting it to Shireroth. Comstokia is no longer independent in the inter-micronational world.5) Comstokia´s holdings on the MCS map are therefore part of Shireroth while Comstokia is a protectorate. Comstokia must therefore recieve the same protection afforded to native Shireroth territory. All of the Comstokian military is also under the command of the Shireroth military.6) Comstokia retains complete and unfettered internal autonomy with the exception of obvious civil right violations. 7) All Comstokians are loyal to Shireroth as their own nation.8) Every 3 calender months from the date of signing by the Hertug and Kaiser, Comstokia can decide to regain its autonomy and retain all of its original land holdings- effectively ending its status as a protectorate. Three months means the exact day 3 months later, not necessarily 90 days. For example, if the treaty is signed on August 15th, Comstokia can regain its soverignty on Nov 15th and Nov 15th only. The claim must be made on Nov 15th PST. Comstokia can regain its autonomy in such a way every 3 months. After one year and no claim to soverignty is made, Comstokia is permanently part of Shireroth unless Shireroth allows Comstokia to leave its jurisdiction. 9) If Comstokia regains its soverignty, all Comstokian citizens remain Shireroth citizens and need to find a new place to relocate (if they meet Shireroth's dual citizen conditions). Comstokian citizens in Shireroth cannot have their emmigration impeded if they wish.10) If Comstokia regains its soveriegnty from Shireroth, a peace treaty must be signed within 30 days between the two countries. Embassies must be granted.11) An external link on the Shireroth ezboard will link to Comstokia´s ezboard. There must also be a link to Comstokia on Shireroth´s website and ezboard ring. The reverse applies to Comstokia linking to Shireroth. This condition must be met within 30 days. 12) Any changes to this treaty not already specified must be made by both Comstokia and Shireroth.SIGNED,___________________, KAISER of SHIREROTH___________________, HERTUG of COMSTOKIAEdit: Fixed 8) thing.. Edited by: Zirandorthel  at: 8/10/05 15:42

[Zirandorthel]

JDS, long time no see.Do you still have ICQ or any other way of getting in contact other than ezboard? Twould be nice talking to you again.One question about this treaty, though. I see that Article 7 guarantees Comstokian citizens complete loyalty to Shireroth. I assume they have to swear an oath like normal Shirerithians? Just nitpicking, but people are tricksy, as has been proven in the past.. Wil Nider to the HyperboreansEoin to the restZirandorthel to the ages

[jdsager]

I have AIM only: Drake44444I can't download software because of the computers I use so thats it for now.The oath would be fine I assume.

[Zirandorthel]

Some things I’ve noticed…and changes proposed in bold.Quote:3) Being Shirerothian citizens, citizens of Comstokia hold all rights given to those citizens of Shireroth except that Comstokians cannot hold positions of nobility in other Shirerithian fiefdoms while also owning Comstokian citizenship. This can be altered at a later date by the Landsraad.Perhaps change this to “cannot hold positions of nobility in other Shirerithian fiefdoms while also owning Comstokian citizenship”, or something else to imply that so long as they remain within Comstokia as a protectorate, they cannot become nobles. As it is now, it could imply that Comstokians are prohibited from holding noble status simply because of their Comstokian citizenship. I know this can be altered later, but I think it’d be a worthy addition now. After all, what if Comstokia becomes a County, Barony or even Duchy in the future?Quote: 6) Comstokia retains complete and unfettered internal autonomy on the same level as other Shirerithian fiefdoms of its status with the exception of obvious civil right violations.I’m assuming that Comstokia will be placed within a Duchy, on a similar basis as Cimmeria was. If so, then it will first be beholden to its Duke, or any Baron whose territory encompasses it, and then to the Kaiser. Dukes have a measure of autonomy themselves, but obviously Comstokia, having only one citizen, would have less autonomy. As I say, I’m assuming there is not some special deal being worked out between the Hertug and the Kaiser, and that the Hertugi will be treated as a normal nation of its size with regards to its status within Shireroth, as according to the FHA legislation.Quote: 9) If Comstokia regains its soverignty, all Comstokian citizens remain Shireroth citizens and need to find a new place to relocate (if they meet Shireroth's dual citizen conditions). Comstokian citizens in Shireroth cannot have their emmigration impeded if they wish.Referring back to your version of Article 3, would this separation then mean that they could become Shirerithian nobles? If we don’t change Article 3, Article 9 would need to be changed to indicate that upon Comstokia itself leaving Shireroth, its citizens, upon retaining Shirerithian citizenship, could then become nobles. Fair enough?Quote: 10) If Comstokia regains its soveriegnty from Shireroth, a peace treaty must be signed within 30 days between the two countries. Embassies must be granted.What if we part on very bad terms? Not saying anything, but such things have happened in the past…they could happen again.Quote: 11) An external link on the Shireroth ezboard will link to Comstokia´s ezboard. There must also be a link to Comstokia on Shireroth´s website and ezboard ring. The reverse applies to Comstokia linking to Shireroth. This condition must be met within 30 days.Within 30 days of what? Of this treaty being signed? Of separation occurring? Some clarification would be great.Since these changes have to be made by both our nations, as stipulated in Article 12, I await your communication.. Wil Nider to the HyperboreansEoin to the restZirandorthel to the ages

[jdsager]

All of those changes are fine and make good sense. There were/are some clarity issues.By this:Quote:11) An external link on the Shireroth ezboard will link to Comstokia´s ezboard. There must also be a link to Comstokia on Shireroth´s website and ezboard ring. The reverse applies to Comstokia linking to Shireroth. This condition must be met within 30 days.I meant within 30 days of signing so that can be added.Changes are good, I'll draft an edited version.

[jdsager]

At first I wanted it just to be a protectorate, and then I did not care either way so I figured whatever Shireroth wanted would be best. My main concern is the chance to regain autonomy without a problem, so that seemed to be agreed upon.It terms of being a seperate entity known as a protectorate, or part of a duchy, I don't care either way anymore. Whatever works best for Shireroth will work for me, because in the truth of the matter, it will not have much of an effect on anything.I don't know how the legality would work though, if Comstokia was part of a Duchy, but couldn't attain titles of nobility. It seems as part of a Duchy, Comstokians would have to have the full rights of any Shireroth citizen. I'm not as familiar with legal issues as you are though.

[Kaiser Los III]

Regarding Eoin's change to Point 6: it seems to imply that Comstokia would work on the same level as any other Shirerithian piece of land and thus be in a Duchy and under that Duchy's control. From my discussions with Sager I was under the impression he did not want this which is why he wanted a protectorate status in the first place. Can you just confirm you support Point 6 and don't need it to be edited to give you extra independence? Edited by: Kaiser Los III at: 8/11/05 1:30

[Zirandorthel]

Oh I see. Well I think if you can accept that it will come under the control of a Duchy, nothing is really changed. Comstokians could gain titles within Comstokia, such as Count or Baron, but if they wanted to be Duke of Kildare, say, they would naturally have to forfeit 'lesser' Comstokian citizenship in order to do so...unless Comstokia was within Kildare...perhaps we could deal with individual cases as they arose.Anyway, since Comstokia would still be able to opt out every three months if they wish, and would have internal autonomy as befitted a territory of their size, I don't see that their location as a fiefdom within Shirerithian hierarchy matters all that much. Wil Nider to the HyperboreansEoin to the restZirandorthel to the ages

[jdsager]

Yeah that works then. Comstokia has its own nobility system independent of Shireroth so it should not be a problem. Should I pick a Duchy (Kildare) or should I go to one that would be a better fit.

[Zirandorthel]

Going to the one that is geographically closest to Comstokia on the MCS map would make most sense, I think.Perhaps the chosen Duchy should be included in the Treaty too. Wil Nider to the HyperboreansEoin to the restZirandorthel to the agesEdited by: Zirandorthel  at: 8/11/05 5:47

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Eoin and I have spoken briefly about this matter, and I would be very pleased to have Comstokia within Kildare, in whatever capacity most suited it (for example, as a county or other self-contained, informal entity, or as a barony in its own right). I don't think it is absolutely vital to have Kildare mentioned in the treaty, unless you decide for certain you would want to become part of it and want to hash out the details ahead of time.Hypatia AgnesiDutchess of Kildare *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[jdsager]

I am not sure exactly which will be the closest Duchy to the land I am going to receive, but I think Kildare would be on the same continent. Thanks for the welcoming!Also, I am going to be out of town for the next few days as I am travelling a bit, so think of anymore ideas and I will rework and repost the treaty here on Monday.Thanks for the help.

[Zirandorthel]

Great, good to hear. I probably won't be here most of the day for Monday, but I'll check back as soon as I can. Wil Nider to the HyperboreansEoin to the restZirandorthel to the ages

[jdsager]

Here is the edited version, I did not change much, just your recommendations:TREATY OF SHIREROTH-COMSTOKIA(Multi-lateral treaty making the Hertugi of Comstokia a PROTECTORATE of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth for a minimum of 3 months.)UPON signing by the Kaiser of Shireroth and the acting Hertug of Comstokia, the following will go into effect. The following clauses are non-negoiatable after signing.1) Comstokia will become a Protectorate of Shireroth, located in the Duchy of Kildare.2) All citizens of Comstokia who own Comstokian citizenship while Comstokia is a protectorate of Shireroth are citizens of Shireroth until they emigrate, or their citizenship is officially cancelled. 3) Being Shirerothian citizens, citizens of Comstokia hold all rights given to those citizens of Shireroth except that Comstokians cannot hold positions of nobility in other Shirerithian fiefdoms while also owning Comstokian citizenship. This can be altered at a later date by the Landsraad.4) Comstokia forfeits soverignty, granting it to Shireroth. Comstokia is no longer independent in the inter-micronational world.5) Comstokia´s holdings on the MCS map are therefore part of Shireroth while Comstokia is a protectorate. Comstokia must therefore recieve the same protection afforded to native Shireroth territory. All of the Comstokian military is also under the command of the Shireroth military.6) Comstokia retains complete and unfettered internal autonomy on the same level as other Shirerithian fiefdoms of its status with the exception of obvious civil right violations.7) All Comstokians are loyal to Shireroth as their own nation.8) Every 3 calender months from the date of signing by the Hertug and Kaiser, Comstokia can decide to regain its autonomy and retain all of its original land holdings- effectively ending its status as a protectorate. Three months means the exact day 3 months later, not necessarily 90 days. For example, if the treaty is signed on August 15th, Comstokia can regain its soverignty on Nov 15th and Nov 15th only. The claim must be made on Nov 15th PST. Comstokia can regain its autonomy in such a way every 3 months. After one year and no claim to soverignty is made, Comstokia is permanently part of Shireroth unless Shireroth allows Comstokia to leave its jurisdiction. 9) If Comstokia regains its soverignty, all Comstokian citizens remain Shireroth citizens and need to find a new place to relocate (if they meet Shireroth's dual citizen conditions). Comstokian citizens in Shireroth cannot have their emmigration impeded if they wish.10) If Comstokia regains its soveriegnty from Shireroth, negotiations must held regarding a peace treaty.11) An external link on the Shireroth ezboard will link to Comstokia´s ezboard. There must also be a link to Comstokia on Shireroth´s website and ezboard ring. The reverse applies to Comstokia linking to Shireroth. This condition must be met within 30 days of the signing of this treaty.12) Any changes to this treaty not already specified must be made by both Comstokia and Shireroth.SIGNED,___________________, KAISER of SHIREROTH___________________, HERTUG of COMSTOKIA Edited by: Zirandorthel  at: 8/15/05 14:54

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Since you have stated that Comstokia will be located within Kildare (yay!), would you be so kind as to clarify the following clause to refer only to nobilities in fiefdomes other than/outside of Kildare, as I believe that is its intent?I would not be averse to making either Comstokia, or a territory encompassing Comstokia, into a Barony, nor would I automatically deny a Comstokian citizen from becoming its Baron. This is why I feel this clause needs to be clearer. It would be much easier to change it now than to wait for the Landsraad to get around to it.Quote:3) Being Shirerothian citizens, citizens of Comstokia hold all rights given to those citizens of Shireroth except that Comstokians cannot hold positions of nobility in other Shirerithian fiefdoms while also owning Comstokian citizenship. This can be altered at a later date by the Landsraad. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[osmose1000]

Where would you want the link? Under fiefdoms? Or in the MiniEx page? They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...