Plans for that dead thing...I mean the economy

[Gryphon the Pure]

1. This would work just as effectively as the Landsraad Front Gate, and no more.2. If a commoner is going to pay 20€ for his own vote, he's certainly going to vote the way he wants to, not the way the person who gave him the 20€ wants him to. But yes, if the Noble had subjects whose opinions were already aligned to his, he could do this. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

[Fax Celestis]

Well, you're certainly not going to bribe someone who isn't already indebted to you or is already on your side. And who would have thought that my fate, it would conjure this twist in the road on which I have wandered?Each vision and dream now completely dismembered, to give one's whole life and find nothing's remembered...And what good is a life that leaves nothing behind? Not a thought or a dream that might echo in time

[Bill3000]

There's really no justification to let commoners outside of the Landsraad in the first place. Nobility is meant to be limited, and it is most definatly possible for productive citizens to not be nobility. However, they should still get a say; if nobles won't represent the commoners, then I feel that this is a good compromise.Also, it would be best for it to be in the Landsraad and not another forum; the entire complaint that started was that the Gate is good in theory, but not in fact; few actually use it. You may say, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", but when there are few actual posts in the Landsraad Gate (Note that all these debates are generally in the General Discussion), then you know that it's not working. Meh.I still think that commoners should at least be allowed to speak in the Landsraad in the debates, period, at the very least, ignoring the concept of commoners voting. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Gryphon the Pure]

ARGH! I hate that this is based in the assumption that the Landsraad Front Gate doesn't work, and the assumption that the Landsraad Front Gate doesn't work is based on the fact that people don't use it! IF YOU WANT A VOICE, USE THE FRIGGIN FRONT GATE! Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

[Hypatia Agnesi]

I would propose that all legislation-related threads and threads regarding possible legislation (like this one) be moved and kept in the Front Gate. The General Discussion forum is great, but we have a place for those debates that is rarely used, the Front Gate. I'm not sure if this could be legislated (or if it should be), or if it could just be implemented anyway. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[osmose1000]

*coughialreadyproposedthatcough* Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Actually, what I just said meant (in context) that the threads should be moved from GENERAL to the Front Gate, regardless of what goes on in the Landsraad chamber itself. Sure, the bill that would have put the Landsraad debate there failed, but I don't see why we have all of our political debates here, and not in either the Front Gate or the Kaiser's Court (depending on what we're debating). There's a difference there.Attention commoners: I most definitely look at the Front Gate, whenever someone bothers to post there, because it's a good place to get clarification and hear other propositions. The political debates here in General are often quite active, and it's a shame that they are here and not in the Front Gate. Would you support moving our debates from here over there? *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[Shyriath]

*Isn't a commoner, but would support that anyway.*

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Shyriath. You've been quiet about this, eh?

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Scott, since you'll soon be a commoner, what do you think about this idea of having our debates in General conducted in the Front Gate instead?(Also, since you're resigning, would you update the voting information in the Landsraad? That will help my confusion when the next voting starts. Do you have an emmisary?) *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Dunno about the Front Gate...people tend to check General more; it's nice to have everything in one area. I guess I don't care one way or the other.As for voting rearrangement, I say we just wait until DRA passes (which should be very soon) and do it then.

[Hypatia Agnesi]

Well, I'm one of the people who checks the front gate when people post, so if these debates were there, I'd be checking it more (obviously). Since half of the nobles polled said they value the front gate, I would imagine that increasing its activity by consolidating out-of-landsraad debates would increase its value among nobles, and increase its use by non-nobles.. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[Gryphon the Pure]

Okay, to clarify, I support Moose's suggestion:Quote:Solution: Any citizen wishing to propose something or vote on something will just do it at the front gate, and MiniTrade or an appointed watcher will check for the transaction and then propose it for them.but I still believe that it would work no differently than the way the Prætor is already supposed to carry the commoners' voice from the Front Gate to the Landsraad. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

[osmose1000]

All in favor of Minitrade confirming transactions and moving stuff from the front gate to the landsraad say aye.AYE!And, to clarify, there will be other appointees during MiniTrade LOAs, and if someone casts a vote but the minitrade is late in moving it over, tough luck, here's a refund. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

[Hypatia Agnesi]

If you'd like MiniTrade to be responsible for moving over commoners' votes and opinions for a fee, go right ahead, but it will have to be legislated. As it is, you only have a right to speak in your capacity as minister when actually summoned. *throws grenade for the hell of it*BO0O0O0O0/\/\!!!!!!

[osmose1000]

Yes, hence why, after this impromptu vote, I'm going to propose it to the Landsraad. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Okay, first, you can't propose that in the Landsraad. This whole proposal violates the Charter and thus would have to be decreed by the Kaiser (and not just decreed, it would have to be in the form of a replacement of the Charter).Second, that essentially wrecks the purpose. It means that (aside from the vote) the commoners do not get too much power beyond the power already given them - to post something in the Landsraad Front Gate asking a noble to say something in the Landsraad or just generally telling the Landsraad something. It probably wouldn't work, and people would use the failure of the watered-down version to excuse not supporting the entire plan.

[Bill3000]

So are we going to go about this? Come on guys, don't give up. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[osmose1000]

Well, I threw this at the Kaiser but all he said was "Maybe" and it got thrown into the list of crap that he said he'd do and has yet to actually do. Hypatia's Mom: Yay! I'm legal now.Moose: WE(Shireroth) HAVE NON-NOBLES?![21:11] Bill7D0: It's 9:11 PM. Do you know where your plane is?

[Kaiser Alejian I]

One day, if you make it to Kaiser, you'll understand how it works. :PAs for my opinion, here it is (finally).Close the loopholes, eliminate the problems, and get one coherent proposal a majority can support, and then propose it in my court and if I like it i'll make the changes to try it out. As Scott said, if this doesn't work we can allways go back to the way it was. *shrugs*Of course, it's 1:18am here, and im dead tired and not in a pleasant state of mind. But yes, here is my opinion. All apoligies for the wait.