RE: Seperation of Church and State Act

[Philip Locke]

Quote:now, I'm no B0O0/\/\ist, but I still say it must be supported, at any costBoomism was the state religion of Shireroth, but a Kaiserial decree revoked its status as the Established Church a while ago. And this isn't an attack on Boomism anymore than it's an attack on Treesian Unorthodoxy or Soloralism. Perhaps the bit about "equal support" for all religions should be removed, so as to prevent any attempt to make the Crown responsible for the well-being of every little cult and temple in Shireroth. The government's attitude towards all religions should be one of salutory neglect.

[Erik Mortis]

Which it is... As it stands there is neither support... or unsupport of any religion.. BUT.. Historicall, Culturally and Traditionally.. B0O0/\/\ism has been the dominent religion in this nation and has had some role in the nation. If we do this seperation of church and state thing.. we have to remove malarbora.. Kaisers can't take B0O0/\/\ist god's names.. We must UN-holyland the holylands set down for protection... The Gods would have no part of Shireroth which is part of the culture of the nation. What you ask is not simply a nice gesture.. but a sizeable change to our traditions. Religion.. although not central.. is still a part of this govenrment. B0O0/\/\ism specificly.. As it stands there is no conflict of interests. Which is pleasing. Although traditionally a part of this nation B0O0/\/\ism has never been sooo favored over any other religion as to be a problem. It's my oppinion that this act shouldn't be passed. But we should keep an eye on things and make sure that the goverment doens't start making things hard for other religions.. To that I will agree... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Austi Scot]

Erik said: Quote:To that I will agree... uh, I thought this guy was a commoner!I think a bill of nature would be good for Shireroth.Austi

[david northworthy beckfor]

I believe that the government should support B0O0/\/\ism, and treat other religion as normal organisations which have nothing to do with the government.Shireroth is B0O0/\/\ist, and B0O0/\/\ism is Shireroth.vive le B0O0/\/\ "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Erik Mortis]

I am a commoner.. that doesn't stop me from agreeing or disagreeing with Locke... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Philip Locke]

Quote:I believe that the government should support B0O0/\/\ism, and treat other religion as normal organisations which have nothing to do with the government.I don't want my money going to support any religion, especially one to which I do not belong.Quote:Shireroth is B0O0/\/\ist, and B0O0/\/\ism is Shireroth.That's a moronic (not to mention nonsensical) platitude. Probably less than 20% of Shireroth is Boomist.

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

...but that 20% is very violent and abusive, no? So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

Erik, it is true that Boomism is directly tied to our culture and way of life, but it is not integral to the functioning of the Government. There is nothing keeping Kaisers from taking the name of Gods if this passes. At the worst, we could have a Kaiser Jehova I or a Kaiser Vishnu II, which I don't think would hurt the nation on a base or even a higher lever. As for the holy lands...well...they could just become Nationally Protected and Boomism would recognise such lands as holy.Besides, as it stands the religion is pretty dormant. We wouldn't be affecting much at all with the passage. Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Alexandra Decens]

Exactly...nothing would be affected...so why deal with it now or even later...there is no real issue at hand here...the temple is not interfering with the government and the government is not interfering with the temple.......and i have not idea if that came out at all like i wanted... I have no custom signature...oh wait...

[david northworthy beckfor]

the reason it was put up is that there may be a tax on forums (a tax I am fully in support of) "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[SSFSX17]

Somehow, I'm sensing 3|_33715/\/\ here.

[SaiKar LumEth]

There is a lot of that, but not as much as you might think. Shireroth has survived on B0O0/\/\ism for a very long time. It is probably the microworld's oldest construced religion.

[Philip Locke]

This nation could just as accurately be called the "Old Boys' Club of Shireroth", SS.It's disgusting. The act is failing because Erik is opposed to it, basically. His influence holds sway over the citizenry to such an extent that he doesn't even need to be Kaiser or have a seat in the Landsraad to have his will carried out.The day I get into Landsraad...

[david northworthy beckfor]

Actually, I would have been opposed to this law wether erik was here or not "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

I don't do things because erik thinks a certain way...i do things because 9 times out of 10 I agree with him, and being the second oldest Shirerothian here there is probably a reason for that... and this is one of those times...i abstained primarily because to some extent i agree with it, but i think it's pointless in the absense of an actively worshipping populace. Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Erik Mortis]

Jesus.. I'm not even being that vocal on the issue... Where are people coming from saying I'm yelling and shit (see Landsraad).. or that I'm hold sway... I recognize that no religion should be supported officially.. and no religion should be ostrisized.. except Yellowism... But I don't feel this is neccessary and that it would in the end hurt this nation. Mostly just a gut feeling.. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[SSFSX17]

1 \/\/45 JU57 J0|I personally feel that any religion named |8000/\/\15/\/\ can't be taken seriously in any way, except maybe by h4x0r2 who mostly use nukes.

[Erik Mortis]

.....right. B0O0/\/\ism has been using that set up for ages. I think it was Lukedu who came up with it.. (oddly enough I'm talking to him right now..yay).. Booomism is just as accuate. and Cedrism is the accuall name of the religion when it uses Gods. B0O0/\/\ism just looks nifty..hehehe Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Scott Alexander]

Not to mention that I don't think anyone expects/wants Boo/\/\ism to be taken seriously. If someone started taking it seriously, I'd be worried.

[Frank T Dugford]

BLASTFEMUR!!!*smites Scott Siskind*

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

Where the hell did that come from? Sound like a bad dream from my Ex's past... Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Erik Mortis]

indeed... The God of Canned fruit has arrived.... If it wasn't you.... and it wasn't me... who is it..... Where's Ari? Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Eriana Moon]

Quote:It's disgusting. The act is failing because Erik is opposed to it, basically. His influence holds sway over the citizenry to such an extent that he doesn't even need to be Kaiser or have a seat in the Landsraad to have his will carried out.I take some ofence to this. I have often disagreed with Eric in the Landsraad and out of it. I just hapen to agree in this case.....On second thought I'm not one of the Old Boys so I'm taking a little less ofence....BUT STILL.................... Baroness of Lunaris in The Republic of ShirerothBaroness-Councilor of Tallandor-New Barbary in TreesiaFounder of Lumenetra (please stop by. We would love to see you)

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

That is a bit peculiar, isn't it erik? Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Alexandra Decens]

It is indeed peculiar ....and...Whether conciously or unconciously, I think people may be trying to vote in a way that pleases Erik because he is the founder of Shireroth. Also, because they may know that if/when Erik becomes Kaiser agian, he can always change a bill that displeases him. The thing about that is, yes, Erik is founder of Shireroth and, yes, he holds the Kaisership more than anyone else, but, if it is the will of the people and of the nobles to have a law passed, especially one they feel strongly about, he will accept that and let it stand. True, he may not like it, but he will accept it. I think the citizens of Shireroth need to realize/remember that Shireroth is indeed a nation full of people with diverse opinions and every man/woman is entitled to his/her opinions. Those opinions will differ, but it should not rest on the opinions of one man to change the opinions of all others just because that man happens to be in charge often or because he founded the nation and they think they need to please the founder (or whatever reason). I have no custom signature...oh wait...Edited by: Alexandra Decens at: 3/15/04 9:41 pm

[Kaiser Wyltheow I]

I have no problem opposing erik since the bulk of my micronational reputation was founded on the very concept...and look, i'm Kaiser... Wylþeow du GrifosThe Kaiser of ShirerothThe gods blessed you with power and a visionThe gods gave you life to accomplish a mission...

[Alexandra Decens]

true, but you have made your niche opposing him..and like i said..he rules MUCH of the time...not all of the time..Edit: Latter part of the sentence...damned EzBoard I have no custom signature...oh wait...Edited by: Alexandra Decens at: 3/15/04 10:13 pm

[Erik Mortis]

You know I love ya Nick..hehe Even if you constantly rebell against me. As for this God Ol' Boys clube. Yes. People who have been in this nation longer tend to be listened to more, or hold more sway depending on who it is. But I doubt it is as organized as you make it sound. All the "elder" shirerithian have there own agendas just like everyone else and often don't agree on ideas. Like most societies there will be the older members who may hold more sway than the younger. But sometimes there are reasons.And just to be clear. I've never supported the ostrization of new members to this comunity. I've never supported the notion that one person is more important than other. Granted ..we are a Fuedal society so fundamentally we have a level of that, but in a different sense. If you feel that only the elder Shirerithians ever get to be nobles.. well.. consider a few things. Not all nobles have been around forver like maybe Me.. Nick.. or Scott. Rakesh, Alex ...ect They haven't been in this nation for even 6 months and they together control an entire duchy and Ministry. Eoin is Prætor. The thing is. Shireroth like all societies tends to be able just becoming known, liked and trusted. Sure perhaps some have advantages in these fields depending on past experiences or relationships. But I believe this nation truely does try to treat everyone equally. I could speak more on the subject, but I have scripting to get back to so I can make CGI for the site eventually. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Ruhan Zarathustra Erudinz]

I'll just add my two sense but... perhaps people are "influenced by Erik's opinion" (Not the exact quote, it's 2:30AM and I've been tired since like 7PM yesterday, I don't even know /how/ I'm still up right now and it's getting rather painful to type at this point, oh well) anyhow, it may be because... they, agree with him?!I know, hard to believe, but maybe people just honestly /don't/ like this idea and so voted against it.Cause really, you can pretty much make this arguement for everything. Like: Oh so and so proposed the bill and people voted in favour?! They /must/ have voted that way just cause so and so proposed it, not because they actually liked the legislation.So, if you like a bill and it fails and Erik happens to disagree with you, I really don't think it's a logical arguement to blame that defeat on Erik. "Disce quasi semper victurus; vive quasi cras moriturus"

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

I don't see where this bill came from originally anyway. It's not like B0O0/\/\ism has been knocking on doors, handing out fiesta-bombs, and yelling, "Down with the Northfloating Treaty!!!1" Instead, the religion itself is an addition (an add-on optional expansion pack, if you will) to the Shirithian way of life. In no way has it ever been forced down anyone's throat. In no way has it ever been proclaimed to be the "one true religion." And in no way will I support a bill that only serves to stifle an aspect of Shirithian culture that I myself enjoy from time to time. So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.