Taxes and Budget

[Erik Mortis]

I think the Landsraad needs to establish a budget for the ministries and nation (with consultation with MiniTrade). And to perhaps establish a few basic imperial Taxes. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Not yet. The economy needs to figure out just what the hell it's doing first. So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.

[Erik Mortis]

Just tossing ideas around... Maybe for later.. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Erik Mortis]

Ok... Wtf is the tax rate? I mean the accual set in stone law tax rates.. Cause I'm losing basicly all my money to pointless taxes that I'm not even sure apply to me and expenses which make no sense... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Alexandra Decens]

yeah...what is the tax rate? I have no custom signature...oh wait...

[Erik Mortis]

Tax system in this nation makes no sense to me... you should only be taxed on your profits... as in.. apply expenses.. than tax the remaining income.. first apply any imperial level taxes.. than local level taxes...There should be 2 types of taxes. Local and Imperial. Imperial taxes are set down by the imperial government. Like.. a moose tax that makes everyone have to pay 2erb for every moose they own or something... Or Duchy tax.. which taxes the duchies based off their internal tax profits.. than local taxes are taxes applied by the Duchy or barony. If you live in a duchy and not a barony. the duchy taxes you dirrectly. If you live in a Barony... the barony taxes you dirrectly and the Duchy taxes the barony.Does this make sense? It does to me.. and I think we oughta work something out like it... and MAKE IT EASY TO KNOW WHAT THE BLOODY TAX RATES ARE!... MiniTrade REALLLLY needs to make a webpage with all this info... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[david northworthy beckfor]

Quote: Tax system in this nation makes no sense to me... you should only be taxed on your profits... as in.. apply expenses.. than tax the remaining income.. first apply any imperial level taxes.. than local level taxes...well I dont know abut you, but in RL, the government take tax from me before the money reaches my bank account, so it is right that austi takes tax before you spend "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Austi Scot]

Let me point out that the tax rate was announced to each person in advance, with the possible exception of Jadie as she was Kaiseress at the time and therefore not subject to income tax..Let me point out that we have a feudal system of government and that I have been attempting to get the Nobles to institute a Nobility Tax. Dukes would place a Nobility Tax on their Barons and the commoners living in the Duchy. Barons would tax their Counts and the commoners living in their Barony. If we had Counts they could place a Nobility Tax on the commoners living in their County. If the Kaiser were involved in the economy he could place a Nobility Tax on the Dukes. This tax would then reduce the income tax be the amount of the Nobility Tax. Let me point out that each business must now designate a place within Shireroth where they are located. This notice was given to each business along with the notice that the Nobility of that place can place a business tax upon them. This tax also would reduce the income tax by the amount of the income tax. The income tax is only 35% and the expenses were only 20% - this leaves each person with 45% of their income – a rather tidy amount to be able to save, or to invest. Expenses may go up tho, but taxes of all sorts will remain about the same.With this in mind Nobles should recognize they can have much of the income tax money actually flow to their personal accounts – just as in really was in feudal times, how about that! Who knows, maybe some Noble will get greedy and want more than 35% of the income from those in their Duchy. There are so many built in loopholes – all you guys have to do is look around to find them. But if you wish to make a law about the income taxes and or expenses – go ahead. If you guys want to have Erik or anyone else say how the economic sim should work – make that person the Minister.Austi ScotMiniTrade

[Jadie of Goldshire]

Question.....if I'm not subject to income tax then what is the 2108 that I have to pay to the Royal Treasury? Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[david northworthy beckfor]

you were not...because at that time, you rulednow you dont, so you pay "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Austi Scot]

Right - you weren't subject to income tax while you were the ruler - the Kaiseress.Once you no longer rule the money you took with you is considered your income - and thus subject to the tax.If you don't the money you can give it back to the Royal Treasury. The amount you give back will not be subject to the tax, but the amount you keep will be subject to the tax.Austi ScotMiniTrade

[Erik Mortis]

"well I dont know abut you, but in RL, the government take tax from me before the money reaches my bank account, so it is right that austi takes tax before you spend"This isn't real life... Why should we be regulated by systems that don't exsist here?And that makes no sense.. You're taxing money that was one.. given long ago.. and is now savings.. under your logic my savings account should be taxes every cycle as the money came to me by means of income..And you are forcing nobles to have taxes they haven't instated.... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Erik Mortis]

BTW: Austi... I have no problem with you as Minister... I'm just a commoner complaining about taxation...hehe (you wanted a sim.. I'm the simulated disgruntled peasentry...) Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Austi Scot]

I'm not forcing Nobles to have taxes - just making it possible for Nobles to get more money and suggesting they do it.I know you have no problem with me being the Minister - I'm playing along with the sim too. In real life I am a tax protestor, but here I'm the tax man. LOL

[Erik Mortis]

ok... just making sure...back to my protesting! Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[david northworthy beckfor]

Quote:This isn't real life... Why should we be regulated by systems that don't exsist here?you want it realistic dont you?anyway, if they tax after you apend, then you could do the following....friday, you get paid 100 'erbsaterday, you spend 100'erbsunday, the tax man comes roun, taxts 30% of what you have left, ie, 30% of nothinghey presto, you pay no tax! "Disclaimer: Whatever is in the above post is probably a result of my blind following of Kieran Bennett, because I have even less of a brain than Kieran. Don't even get me started on my lack of independent thought."

[Shasta Rana Wanderlust]

Erik does have a point. Even the gimpy US government doesn't tax you on possessions you have, just your income. So why the obscene taxes on our current holdings? So, if god is falliable, does that mean that this universe (or plane of existence, depending on your style of thought) could be nothing more than a metaphysical trashcan?Platypi point to this being true.

[Austi Scot]

Because your current holdings are indeed income. There has never been a previous tax - thus everything you hold has not yet been taxed.

[Erik Mortis]

But you said I got 5k of it from being Kaiser.. Kaiser isn't subject to tax so neither is his income.. that was income from being Kaiser.. thus I pay no tax on it...I'm talking after expenses... take your income.. subtract expenses.. apply imperial taxes...subtract taxes due... than apply local taxes after ... subtract again... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Austi Scot]

When you left the throne you took the money with you. The money wasn’t yours personally, it belonged to the nation. As Kaiser you had the right to use it. It became your income when you left the throne and took the money with you. You aren’t the Kaiser now – so the money you took is taxable. If you don’t want to be taxed on that money give it back to the Royal Treasury.Nothing personal, but your tax idea stinks – and has loop holes so big you could drive the nation through them.Austi

[Erik Mortis]

And how's that? You even said their were loopholes in your system.. so if there are holes in mine... I don't see what your problem with them is... and they can always be filled. Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Erik Mortis]

And.. what holes? Point them out... Erik Mortis BrookshireCommoner of Alexandretta

[Austi Scot]

I have made a request to your Duke to allow me to speak to your proposal - if he allows it I will speak there.