Note to the Landsraad

[Harvey the Blue]

From now until... a while from now, all of Lesser Goldshire's votes (i.e. my votes) are to be entered as "abstain." So rather then abstaining to everything individually, I am doing it here.This is just to let the Landsraad know that I am watching but not voting. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[UEC]

Why? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Harvey the Blue]

Political protest. I am not terribly pleased with the Landsraad right now... or the government (the written stuff, not the leadership) for that matter.The whole voting proceedure seems kind of screwy... about 2/3 of the nation can vote, which hardly seems right for a republic. A lot of laws are getting passed out of general apathy (which I can explain if you do not understand, but it seems obvious to me). And all of the changes I want to make involve writing a constitution, or at least patching up the old one... which, for some star forgotten reason is a lynchable offense in this country.So I am kind of frusterated and refuse to partisipate in the Landsraad until I can think of a decent solution. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[UEC]

...That's dumb... You protest the lag of the Landsraad.. by contributing to said lag...... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Mikol Rugal]

Quote:The whole voting proceedure seems kind of screwy... about 2/3 of the nation can vote, which hardly seems right for a republic.Are you protesting that too many people can vote, too few people can vote, or somehow in defiance of all known logic both at the same time?

[Harvey the Blue]

When given those options, I am defying logic. But then again, so is Shireroth. Everyone does not want this to be a democracy. But everyone wants to vote. And everyone wants their friends to be able to vote so that everyone will be happy.We need to stop this nonsensical treading about in the middleground. Either we need to see a drastic cutdown on people that can vote, or we need to go all the way and admit that we want this nation to be democracy. A democracy with a Kaiser(ess), sure, but that is not all that different from what we have now.Erik, I am not protesting the "lag", as you say it. I have never said anything about thinking the Landsraad runs too slow. I would rather see one very good law a month then 18 nonsensical issues a day.When I said that laws were being passed out of apathy, that is an interesting occurance I have always kind of noticed. People have an obligation to vote, and they know it. The government always tells people to vote. People think that if they do not vote, then it apears they do not care about the government. So they vote. But very few* people actually read these laws. So we end up with "Sure, that looks good... 6 vote for YEA" comments and end up passing laws that have obvious, if sometimes unintentional, flaws.One of the evils of democracy, I suppose. Either you cannot get them to vote at all, or they vote but no one cares. It takes a lot more work to overcome that second flaw.*- I say "very few" without exaggeration, but without insulting the few that do read everything and try to think into them. I know Ari does. Scott does too. I try to. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[Gryphon the Pure]

You know, I kind of agree, which is why I've gone through the trouble to rewrite the feudal holdings act Twice now... I think we should get more big bills in the landsraad that are more of a comprehensive blanket than just dabs here and there that all seem the same. This is why I incorporated the Counties act into FHA...as for the constitution, I totally agree with you. I don't even know that everyone here has even looked at the constitution in the past year, let alone read it. We should a) get it as a public sticky announcement, and b) try to amend it a bit. As Erik would say, we change the laws to fit the way the nation is running. But then again, if nobody knows what the laws exactly are, they haven't much incentive to change them. I was a bit disappointed when the movement to write a new constitution was shot down because people started talking about direct democracy again... I admit, I kind of aided in the shooting, but I wasn't intending to kill the whole Idea. There are a lot more and different people involved now than when the constitution was written. I think it would be a great Idea to let them all have at least a voice if not a vote in designing it.umm... I've really gone off on a side track I think... *note to joseph, use outline format more often*as for democracy, I agree that it is a bit less of a republic when everyone can vote, which is why I am all for the county act. With counties, there are citizens with positions who don't have votes in the Landsraad, and must speak through their Barons or their Dukes.I don't know where I was going with this... just don't give up... you know, you can try things yourself... Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

[Harvey the Blue]

Forgive my cynism, but every single thing I have done outside the MiniImNat (and a few things inside...) have been met with cries of "who approved this?! I did not approve this! Do no do stuff like this!" or have been vetoed outright.So I have to restort to whining... but hey, whining works. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[UEC]

And.. annoys the fuck out of people...*has evil idea*...Well.. I HAVE read the constitution.. and I don't want Democracy.. it blows.. so I vote for Monarchy!And thus... I have .. an idea.. a radical... LEGAL.. idea... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Harvey the Blue]

Eh, everyone thought Bill was a whiner (and they were right...) but just THINK about how many times he got his way. A disturbing amount, really. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[UEC]

So you compare youself to Bill? That's sad.. it really is.. No one liked him due to his whining... He was thought down upon by oh so many people... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Jadie Steffke]

Whining has its values....but everything in proportion. and I don't think he was comparing himself to Bill...I think he was just saying how whining can accomplish things. Harvey's Elf-Cat Girl"May the hasha be with you"

[Harvey the Blue]

I was not comparing myself to Bill, but I will defend him anyway. A lot of people disliked him... I was not one of them. I rarely do what is popular anyway. (which makes me wonder why I am any good at micronations...) He was my friend, and he was a good friend, whiny or not. Harvey SteffkeJadie's Lesser HalfSaves the worldProud bearer of the Shirerothian Silver Sword Award and Imperial Star

[UEC]

I liked the lil bugger too.. but he did annoy the shit out of me..hehe He was still my friend....(more recent than historiclly)....But If you plan to whine.. I shall plan to ignore... it works... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Aure I]

*grins* perfect!I understand your distress, and yes, the legislative branch of the government does not appear to work. Anyhow, changes are on their way. I'm also glad that you understand that, if not a new constitution, a few ammendements to the working constitution are nessessary. And Harvey, I'm sorry for not allowing any iniciative. I'm just afraid that things will get out of hand. If you can just let me know that you're doing something at least a few minutes ahead, I'll most likely not oppose it, but will be more than glad that I knew about it in advance. And please, don't whine May the hasha be with you
Never let sense conquer nonsense - Quixy, the God of Madness
I'm just a person trapped inside a woman's body. Elaine Boosler

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Harvey Said:Quote:Everyone does not want this to be a democracy. But everyone wants to vote. And everyone wants their friends to be able to vote so that everyone will be happy.I believe, Mr. Steffke, that that was the point of duchies, as they may be run with any form of government that particular duchy chooses. In theory, a full republic could be set up by voting for issues in the duchies via direct democracy and then sending a rep to the landsraad to vote in the part that actually matters. Also, each duchy could vote on regional matters similarly. In that way, everybody gets to vote and we do not become a democracy. I don't know how the Landsraad works right now. When i left about six months ago, each duchy only got one vote (but then we only had like nine citizens). That was also because I said they only got vote because there weren't enough people to distribute the votes.As for the constitution, I haven't read it in...well, six months! I don't know if there are provisions for amending it (erik always did it himself with kaiserly authority). And I agree, The landsraad hasn't done much of anything important as long as i can remember (which really isn't that well). Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[Gryphon the Pure]

the thing about the duchy government... this is why I had the popular vote for appointing the nobles, as it would be the duchies themselves selecting their representatives to the landsraad... but that got shot down quickly... damn... Raised by a family of Griffins in the forests of Llanowar, this young mage is rumored to be the sole male born of the Serra tribe.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

As long as the nobles are appointed...there isn't really a Republic...it's a monarchy with a counsel... Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[UEC]

Thus.. Imperial Republic... Remember.. we made up the term! E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

No! Slight Crowbar of Separation, thankyou!Republic implies that the people elect their Dukes, but the Kaiser appoints them. Thus it is just a monarchy with a counsel that decides laws. Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[UEC]

It's a Republic in that.. the Duke represent their people.. or are supposed to.. Imperial.. as in the whole monarchy thing.. it's a new term... Using old words.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Um...we could argue this forever, but it's not a republic because the people do not choose their representatives in government. Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[UEC]

I said.. "Imperial Republic"...Not Republic.. NEW term... not old.... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.