Imperial Decree #67 Steward

[Kaiseress Jadie]

I hearby declare Erik Metlzer aka UEC as the Steward of Shireroth. This gives him all entitled power stated in the constitution.(Kaiser Meskan said Erik was Steward but didn't make it official...so I am doing it for him)So shall it be done

[Rakesh86]

Kaiser and Kaiseress,Greeting and Salutations. May you rule Shireroth for many years to come. From your mouth may wisdom flow.While I am not a citizen of the Imperial Republic, I very interested in the political structure of Shireroth - more specifically the power of Kaiser/Kaiseress. For example, the deceased Kaiseress Aurefiction said in her Final Will Quote:The Metzler dynasty is hereby declared as unable to rule the lands of Shireroth. Thus, nobody from that dynasty shall be named Kaiser of Shireroth.Since the will of the Kaiser/Kaiseress is law, let us for the matter of debate say that the above statement is law.Therefore by elevating Erik (nothing against you man) to the position of Steward you have in some sense gone against Aure's word i.e. law of Shireroth - have you not?Just trying to clear things up in my head.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

If you read the Kaiseress' wishes it says that he shall not be named Kaiser. Which he isn't. So technically that is still upholding his law.But that is just the way I have looked at it.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

The way i look at that is that it was not a decree, so we can still do whatever we want...plus, all that has to happen for erik to be kaiser again is for another kaiser to say he can...Dead Kaisers are lesser than those Living. Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[Mari Greenwood]

I am confused.Who is Kaiseress?Jadie? "May The Hasha Be With You!"

[UEC]

Past Kaiser's word was law.Present Kaiser's word IS law. Goood way to understand the system..Any Kaiser can countermand any former Kaiser's Decree....Harvey is Kaiser (ruling noble)Jadie is Kaiseress since she is wed under RS law to Harvey. Thus she because Kaiseress.. with the powers of that title.. except, Harvey, as the Ruling noble, Is above her and can countermand anything she orders, but she can't countermand his orders...So... JD is Kaiseress, but is of lesser power than Harvey.Any confusion remaining? E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Jadie]

you almost confused me with that explanation Erik...*laughs*But yes Mari....I am Kaiseress...in a way....yay for power through marriage!!

[UEC]

But I didn't confuse you.. which is good... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

And I am Yardistani...I stand to the side and say "What the fuck are they doing?" Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[Kaiseress Jadie]

isn't that what everyone does?

[UEC]

The Yardistani make a sport of it... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

*pulls out score card*Yay...I get two points for that comment...um...er...*jumps out the window* Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[UEC]

hehehe Get back in here.. *grabs Nick and pulls him back through the Window* E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Yipes!*Escapes Erik and runs out open door* Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[UEC]

*guards grab Nick as he exits* E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

*Flashes Governement Identification Card**still gets dragged off* Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[UEC]

*Gaurds show their Government ID card*..Ya Ya.. we got those too... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiser Meskan I]

Quote:Since the will of the Kaiser/Kaiseress is law, let us for the matter of debate say that the above statement is law.Therefore by elevating Erik (nothing against you man) to the position of Steward you have in some sense gone against Aure's word i.e. law of Shireroth - have you not?Not really, because Erik was not named Kaiser. But more to the point, although Aure's word was and still is law, the current Kaiser's word is law as well and the current Kaiser's word can override old law. So I could declare Erik heir to the throne and override Aure's decree if I wanted to... which makes that decree fairly worthless.Understand? Harvey of Meskan"This is my day in the sun, and I plan to get a tan."

[UEC]

I find this amusing... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Essentially, what we have just fallen upon an interesting loop-hole. No kaiser can declare that somebody never rule (or, never do something) and expect their decree to be obeyed because their successors have more power than they did. Cool. Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[Kaiseress Jadie]

Interesting.......anywho....*laughs* Edited by: Kaiseress Jadie at: 8/24/03 3:40 pm

[Gryphon Avocatio]

What it essentially amounts to is that the dead are less powerful than the living... Gryphon Avocatio Shirerothian Elder SAVE THE ELF! Save the Kiwi! See the Site "War is the form nostalgia takes when men are hard-pressed to say something good about their country."

[Scott Alexander]

What if...you declare something like "I declare Harvey to be Kaiser, but the moment he starts writing a decree to make Erik heir OR a decree that alters this decree in any way, the Kaisership passes to someone else". That way he could never change the decree because the Kaisership would change before he could finish decreeing anything.

[david northworthy beckfor]

oohh..interesting.. David I Eric Vivian Northorthy Beckford KGCS KL OHDafitt Erick Wiffjan Nurtbefoon Bergsdrumfort"It's a dull man who can only find one way to spell a word"(Mark Twain)My Mission - To be a nuisence to all! (especialy to those I like!), and to be Kaiser of Shieroth by 14/07/04.Aim - hwsbossMSN - kingDaveofDerbyCLEAN UP SCUM! SUPPORT THE anse CONDEMNATION! BALLOT YOUR RULERS NOW!

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*blinks*WOW!! I wish I could manipulate words like that!!!But that is very interesting Scott

[Kaiser Meskan I]

That could easily be solved by having someone else write the decree and having the current Kaiser endorse it, but it brings up an annoying, but easly solved, point.Take the example you gave, and forget about my solution for the moment. If that decree was targetting me and trying to make me lose the throne, and I declared it repealed, two things happen at once: the decree declares me no longer Kaiser and I declare that decree no longer active. I suppose that the decree would have to wait for my response to exist before declaring me not Kaiser, thus my response would void the decree before it can attempt to void me. Problem solved.But even taking THAT solution away, there is a much simpler one: the Kaiser's word is law. What the Kaiser says at any given moment is more important then any law on the books. So even if the two events (I lose the Kaisership and I cancel the decree) happened at the EXACT same time, it is effectively comparing an old law to the Kaiser's new will. The result: the Kaiser's will is more important, and the noble attempt to dethrone me is foiled easily. Harvey of Meskan"This is my day in the sun, and I plan to get a tan."

[Kaiseress Jadie]

*blink blink*wha? I am confoosed....so you are saying....you decree something that exactly contradicts a past Kaiser's decree.....which then cancels that decree and......*lost where she was going*

[Gryphon Avocatio]

What it boils down to is that nobody is more powerful than the ruling Kaiser. Nobody. -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.

[david northworthy beckfor]

except, Harvey, you word isnt law untill it is said, and the hypothetical law does it's job when you open your mouth to speak, David I Eric Vivian Northorthy Beckford KGCS KL OHDafitt Erick Wiffjan Nurtbefoon Bergsdrumfort"It's a dull man who can only find one way to spell a word"(Mark Twain)My Mission - To be a nuisence to all! (especialy to those I like!), and to be Kaiser of Shieroth by 14/07/04.Aim - hwsbossMSN - kingDaveofDerbyCLEAN UP SCUM! SUPPORT THE anse CONDEMNATION! BALLOT YOUR RULERS NOW!

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Simple solution: A decree decreeing that current kaiser's word is more powerful than that of the old.Another sort of solution: What will happen to a Kaiser who decrees something in contrary to a former decree? Nothing, as he is the supreme power. Simple.Also, for the record, Aure's last words to us were in fact not a decree so to speak, but more like last requests. Since she did not label her thread as a decree, we could argue on and on if it is legitamate law or not. -Gryphon Avocatio- Anarch and Duke of all Yardistan - Minister of Imigration and Naturalisation, Shireroth - Shirerothian Elder - "Minsiter of Dance, Pants and Funny Walks" - SAVE THE KIWI!! God save our gracious Queen, long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen. Send her victorious, happy and glorious, long to reign over us; God save the Queen. Thy choicest gifts in store On her be pleased to pour, Long may she reign.May she defend our laws, And ever give us cause To sing with heart and voice God save the Queen.