Shireroth/RoAntica negotiations

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Delphi and I sat down and negotiated with Steven and Olorix of the Republic of Antica yesterday over the fate of Antican territory. Although we were unable to come to a final agreement, both sides were very impressed at the other's willingness to compromise, and we think that we'll need one more session at the most to come up with a final proposal to submit to both countries.The Republic was very understanding of our claim to Aquiliaria, and we have at least in principle accepted that they want a bit of the rest of Plataea. We also both understand that we both want contiguous territory, and they are willing to agree that at least some of their new territory should come from the MCS. We've also agreed that it may be possible for them to get 50% of the old Dinarchy's land by pixel count, although this is still up in the air and subject to the other requirements we're trying to work around.We've also agreed that we won't do anything underhanded or intended to sabotage the other's claim while negotiations are underway, so that hopefully good relations can be preserved completely.

[UEC]

new land from the MCS.... I'm always hesitant to create new territory from such things as these... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

I believe he's referring to obtaining empty territory, not creating new land.

[UEC]

that's what I meant. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[RicLyon]

Why should we even negotiate with them?We've given them Kaikias or something like that already, out of good will. Richard LyonYansha Elaer Kyon gef ShanPernem kahn gef kuymal per varga stiPernem kahn gef varga per kuymal sti

[Stjepan Veliki]

If I were you guys, I would, after annexing the dinarchy, recognize the Republic of Antica as the sole legitimate government of the entire Antican nation - and then laugh and laugh and laugh at the results. SF-SN

[Bill3000]

Quote: Why should we even negotiate with them?We've given them Kaikias or something like that already, out of good will.Because this is a matter between the Anticas, not between Shireroth. Place "Menelmacar" in that sentance and see if your reaction is the same. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be ApollonianScripts not allowedvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Actually Bill, this is as much Shireroth's fight now as it is the Dinarchy and Republic's.If you recall, no Shirerithian faction (with the exception of Lac Glacei) is allowed its own foreign affairs - hence why when negotiations come to the table with the former Dinarch of Antica.... it is Shireroths duty by treaty to take the case up ourselves.And, since there is an unspoken taboo against giving away land, I really dont think we should be negotiating either.

[Ryan]

The technical point which, however, needs to be considered is that the contract with the MCS which places a cap on Shirerithian land claims only allows expansion via annexation or merger.Shireroth already annexed Antica. It would be different if they had made the claim and were then annexed afterwards. But as it is, it would violate the pact.Not to mention the fact that more land really isn't necessary. Scott and I are in agreement that the lands of the larger MCS members should be reduced, not expanded. That includes the GC and Attera in addition to Shireroth. Matter of factly, Stormark could also do with a good reorganisation/reduction. Especially considering the present status of Cranda. Useless art is simply tolerated vandalism. I am a vandal.

[UEC]

I am in disagreement.. and if they are to be reduced they can't be forced.. Otherwise you violate the point of the MCS.. it's not the MCS's place to take away lands just to be fair... Shireroth has been on the map for ages... and earned it's lands... worked for them.. years of struggle... If the smaller nations can survive long enough to get Big... than I would have no problem with their claims... This is like.... communism on a map... it doesn't matter that we have been around long and worked hard for our lands.. cause everyone should get the same... whether they are small nations newly on the map.. or ancient empires... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[UEC]

And this doesn't violate the pact Ryan. As the land is already ours by annexation. We are simply working to clear up some stuff with another nation. So we may end up with less land because of the annexation.However if you reduce Shireroth's land you will have violated the agreement. as the agreement was that Shireroth would claim no new lands (save through annexation(with aproval of the annexed nation) and merger) in return for the MCS not trying to shrink it... several times in the past Shireroth has even gone out of it's way to help out but letting go of lands we didnd' need..where not being used at all, had no importance..etc.. Reducing Shireroth's central lands will seriously damage it culturally. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[RicLyon]

I agree with Erik here.I can't imagine the UN Map Office going to Russia and say "reduce your land".And hey, Shireroth is the most active nation on Micras.

[UEC]

well.. I hear good things about Lovely... Let us not forget them... but I don't know details.. E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Olorix]

Ryan, I think part of the problem is that the Republic, even though having about 10 citizens, is actually one of the smallest nations on the map currently.

[Delphi]

That's something y'all have to work to fix without going and taking others' claims. There's open land, yet I haven't seen a claim made from you (if you have made one, then forgive my ignorance).

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Yes, Erik, while I know you don't like to see this issues solved by giving unclaimed land, the Republic deserves unclaimed land anyway. They never bothered to claim anything when they became independent because they expected the Dinarchy to fall soon and/or wanted to make some sort of "statement". They have one really tiny (probably like 40 pixels) island for ten people.Luckily, a lot of the negotiations revolve around the Republic claiming some unoccupied land in addition to any land we give them. Ryan, check Emperor Augustin's private messages regarding that.

[jdsager]

The land should all be Shireroth's! Shireroth annexed it!

[Bill3000]

Can we have a forum or something for this?More importantly, I feel like I should go into the discussion, considering the fact that I am part of the MCS. Edited by: Bill3000 at: 12/5/05 9:04

[Olorix]

I don't think using technicalities to try and give the worst possible resolution to us is going to be conducive for us living in peace from now on, Delphi.Can I again assert the fact that we were diplomatically unable to make claims at the MCS to all the Dinarchy's land, considering we knew we would be immediately rejected due to that Resolution of the Dinarchy's.There has been a forum created in the Republic of Antica for negotiations.

[stevenAntica]

It's actually a famous late 19th century early 20th century depicting the carving up of china. The pie...if you look closley, says, "Chine". The guy back there I guess is the Qing emperor...who obviously just went to take a piss and came back and found his country being carved up by European powers.I thought it was appropriate cuz it's about carving up a country.

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

A forum created for negotiations would probably be more effective if the parties involved could see it, instead of just the Republicans.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I can see it. What's that hideous ogre doing in the background? Something symbolic?

[Kaiseress Semisa I]

I can't see it, and it's my land in question. I also happen to be the head-of-state of the nation you're negotiating with. I'd like to be let in, if you don't mind.

[stevenAntica]

Makes sense enough. Lemme talk to Nick and we'll get that rolling.

[UEC]

Bill.. you are a low level officer in the MCS....you shouldn't get in under that.. I'm the head of the damn thing.. and they proly wouldn't even let me in... E. Metzler (UEC)Duke of Brookshire"Never use a BOO/\/\ist as a diplomat" -- GSClicky Clicky..., Tiss for your own good ya know.

[Bill3000]

Dude, you arn't the head. You're the founder, but you arn't in charge. You havn't even worked on the MCS map in ages.