Is Shireroth anything more than a chatroom?

[Stjepan Veliki]

Oi veyMarx wasn't a lunatic. His act of 'turning Hegel on his head' doesn't work out well, but he was still a brilliant economist.And the whole "communism can't work because people are inherently individualist" is a pretty vulnerable argument. The assumption of human individualism is not nearly the given that people take it for but regardless of that, its a pretty serious misreading of what Marx actually said. His ultimate intention was to create a society where everyone has the opportunity to reach their potential without handicaps of birth and class. There is nothing to do with a "hive mentality", there would be crime and the community would be able to deal with it. There are much more effective ways of challenging Marxism. SF-SNEdited by: Stjepan Veliki at: 11/4/05 20:14

[Kaiser Yarad I]

Exactly. Most of the people who use that argument, or the, "Power corrupts. Look at Stalin, he was corrupt! You like socialism?! FUCKING STALIN-LOVER!!" riposte which just marks the person out as "idiot" no matter how subdued a fashion they choose to make this point, know nothing about how Marxism, or socialism or whathaveyou, would actually work. The whole "Reds under the bed" mentality is still extant in a lot of countries, after all..

[osmose1000]

COMMIES! ALL OF YOU! FRIGGEN COMMIES! They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Ari Rahikkala]

Did anyone notice that this thread was taken over by a troll with only one post? (of course, on ezboard you can never be sure that only one post really is only one post but well, that's just what you get on ezboard) The league of sadistic telepaths: "There's someone in your head and it's not you"

[Stjepan Veliki]

The thread can only be successfully hijacked if we don't mind that it is. SF-SN

[Kaiser Yarad I]

I'd love to talk ad infinitum about how Shireroth has turned into a chatroom, but we're too busy talking randomly about Marx to do so.

[Stjepan Veliki]

Marx more neato est SF-SN

[MCHR]

Sometimes one can ask a troll for help when one is not treated fairly.Thank you, troll.(Throws troll a Big Mac.)My thought on Herr Marx came about because, well, the Govt. of Shireroth isn't doing much at the moment, but what of it? What makes Shireroth a viable culture is its people. If the People want to use the forums as a from of a chatroom, what of it? Aren't govts. instituted to serve the people?Anyway, I'm sure if you are invaded by trolls or some-such other, I'm sure your Kaiser would respond. Or something.Be glad you have the "chatroom" to fall back on. Most other nations simply curl up and die.Regards, The Usual Troublemaker.

[Kaiser Yarad I]

I'm sure...so long as they're not in some obscure forum which I'd never check.I deleted all my old DLs, turns out I had twenty-seven accounts on the one e-mail address all told. There were ones I'd forgotten completely about too..

[Fax Celestis]

I've got an assload too...been thinking about getting ezsupporter just to link themn all..except I don't know how long we'll be using ezBoard's services, so I'd rather not waste the cash. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[Bill3000]

The recent discussion on Marx pretty much emphasizes on my point.Is it impossible for us to stay on topic in threads? A lot of threads that are meant to be serious just devolve into spam as people lose interest. It's the same problem that Jasonia had, although there is a difference, as Jasonia had an emphasis on on-topic discussions, which was ruined and would cause the downfall of the nation. (The nation was not meant to be a mere chatroom.)Our law system is quite basic, once you think about it. The judical system has barely developed from the ages of Jasonia, from what I have seen, although it still is better and not the embarressment of Jasonia. (For those of you who say that it was because of me, shaddap - I was not the only High Judge there.) The law forums tend to be inactive. But even then, that's not the point. We simply seem to be talking and spamming in forums in which we should not be. One should not spam about things in general discussion - that's for the off-topic. I find thread derailment to be a serious problem in a micronation, because it shows a lack of focus.Frankly, most of us just seem lazy, and I find that to be a problem. Last night, Osmose just talked to me and said, "Give me something to do." He could have done something that he should be doing in Shireroth. A micronation must work together, and the fact that people go on LoAs is not an excuse. A lot of these jobs do not take a lot of time, with the possible exception of writing bills or coding new things.And if we are discussing the fuedalism reform - We have only just discussed it. It's pretty much been agreed from the start. I still havn't seen an effort to actually put it into a reformation of the Imperial Charter, however. It could be simply because it's behind closed doors, but I can't tell, me not being an Imperial Advisor.Basically - spam in forums you should spam in - the predisposed threads in the duchies, and the OT. Do the work that you should do. Don't derail serious discussions. Be productive. Et cetera. That is what makes a micronation - and even though we have the "chatroom" to fall back upon, it still isn't the same thing as a micronation. The fact that we are the most active micronation in the Micras Sector is because we chat a lot, not because we do anything productive, it seems, and I wish I could be proven otherwise. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Harvey the Blue]

Attention Bill.Stop dragging Jasonia into everything.That is all. Harvey SteffkeSai'Kar's Memories LiveJournal - ranting about Shirerothian issues since fall 2004.

[Bill3000]

It's not a matter of dragging Jasonia into everything, moreso as it is a method of comparation. I don't see what is the problem in an analogy. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[osmose1000]

"The judical system has barely developed from the ages of Jasonia" could be interpreted as you saying out judicial system was originally the Jasonian one, and there are some out there who would take that as an insult, seeing that as saying Jasonia developed the courts and we just stole it.And I AM lazy. That request was in the hope that you'd give me something to draw. The fact that you're using it in a rant to say that the whole nation is lazy kind of annoys me. You know, maybe I felt like doing something besides PMing random ministers about their pages or running through the Gotzborg forums again. There are other things on the internet.You are a baron and could definately put into the Landsraad what needs to be put in for the fuedalism reform. So why don't you? They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

The judicial system hasn't developed because we haven't needed it. When was the last time someone was put on trial here? I seem to remember it being back during one of the Erik Kaiserships, which means six months ago at LEAST.Shireroth isn't doing stuff that will never be used. We're also not putting a vast wedge between doing political business and having fun. Is the talking in threads preventing really important stuff from getting done? I think not.I would put almost all of what you're classifying as negatives under positives - we're not taking ourselves too seriously, but we're continuing to run the nation the way it should be.

[Fax Celestis]

Even George Bush tries to joke during legistlation. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[AngelGuardian93]

You heard my subject. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[osmose1000]

Don't you DARE compare us to that heathen. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Ciaron Broeck]

Bill, you have inspired me. breuddwydnewydd.blogspot....ional.html Emyr Ciaron BroeckKing of Breuddwyd

[Bill3000]

And I mock your inspiration. In reality, I am not aiming at a purpose for Shireroth, or any micronation, for that matter. I know that aiming past simulation for a micronation ruins the entire point for a micronation. Instead, what I am trying to do is shield Shireroth from becoming something that really can't be considered a micronation at all. Istvanistan can hardly be considered a micronation, and despite the fact that some of us may think that Istvanistan is an inspiration for a micronation, it really isn't. It doesn't actually do anything political other than the silly talks it has with members of other micronations, at least from what I have seen from the Chaocracy days; if Stjepan or someone else could show me if things are different today, then I would be greatly appreciated.You are right about the Judical system - it has not developed because we did not need it. I was, however, pointing out an aspect which could be developed, but we do not.The talking in threads does prevent important discussion. You had ranted in the past about how ShireChats are completely pointless in productivity, as we drift from the point of the chats to simply spamming and having a good time.There is plenty that could be done. People could stop whining about how their precious duchies are going to be disbanded because of the new fuedalism, and instead embrace the new system. There is plenty of potential for politics and gaining power within the system - there is no need to rush to try to put the baronies and duchies back together.As well, the Lawbook and Decreebook is a mess. I know that the Decreebook is made by the Kaiser only, but there are a lot of redundant areas within each. Personally, I think we should merge the two documents, and put it in better formatting. The format of wiki is excellent for this - why don't we focus on that instead of the references in the forum? The point of merging the documents is to prevent redundancies - there is always the question about which part of one document makes a part of the other document obsolete due to the conflicting areas in the Lawbook.There is plenty to be done. To say that we are bored and lazy, and using that as an excuse to not do anything productive, isn't really a good excuse at all. Even culture, our focus of the nation (which I devoted an entire rant to how it cannot be cometed) does not have to be the end-all-be-all.Personally, I also find that there the Imperial Advisor's forum has become a elitist forum due to the fact that it is private. I know that there is fighting going on there right now, but I do not know anything about it because I cannot see the forum. We should all know that the use of private forum can be destructive to a nation, given how it has been the doom of several nations in the past. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Fax Celestis]

The Imperial Advisory Council has no legal power, nor does it do anything more than advise the Kaiser as to what course of action they should take. Basically it provides the same abilities that an AIM conversation does, except that it a. records the conversation in a more easily readable fashion; and b. prevents the dragging out of things because of time lapse. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[Bill3000]

Then what is stopping the forum from becoming public? Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Fax Celestis]

Because there are discussions which are security-sensitive that shouldn't be expressed to the general public for safety reasons. Also, everyone would have a comment.The forum is to advise the Kaiser, not for everyone to brag about. There aren't any secret plots involved, no hidden agendas. Mostly its just a place for the Kaiser to present an idea and see the reactions of a small sample of the populous. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[AngelGuardian93]

It's like a focus group that doesn't eat you. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[david northworthy beckfor]

then what does it eat? If you feel an icy chill...the Conglacio is amongst you

[Scott of Hyperborea]

The IAC evolved in radically different circumstances than the present: specifically during the Locke era when there were some really big and controversial political issues on the table. Erik's purpose in making it was at least partially so that he could put some of his political opponents on the Council, thus making a gesture that he respected their opinions and letting them communicate with him in a formal political setting rather than through angry denunciations. At the time, it was a really good idea, and could have contributed to defusing those tensions. As of the present, as I see it it's yet another institution that exists because it's a tradition and people like it rather than for any particular purpose.

[vasroixe]

I don't think Shireroth is just a chatroom. Chatrooms have no structure, but orums have structure, so I'd have to say Shireroth is just a forum, wouldn't I? Actually, just like most other micro-nations, Shireroth is probably a glimpse of what a real nation is like...that's what the original intent was, right? The site, wiki, and forums look great. But wow what's up with that headless guy on the wiki? Shirerothian PatriotPrince of Byzantia

[AngelGuardian93]

Don't ask. There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[Bill3000]

By chatroom, I don't mean an IRC-type chatroom. By chatroom, I mean the focus of the community switching to things that are not related to the micronation at all, such as talking about music and the like, or spamming, and it tends to happen in threads where it should not, such as Imperial Decrees or discussions and the like.Shireroth really isn't anything like a real nation in any real form, other than the fact that we have a tight-knit community. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Bill3000]

And now that Osmose is gone, activity has lowered. Should have figured. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);