Priorities

[Stjepan Veliki]

Come to Istvanistan. We drink a lot of beer and when we get around to it will permanently throw off the Babkhan yoke. SF-SN

[Gryphon the Pure]

For not at all the first time in my long stay here in Shireroth, I feel that what effort I do put in to furthering the nation is underappreciated.Being in a rather pissy mood tonight already, I feel no remorse in finally pointing out that people who have contributed much less to Shireroth than I have walked away month after month with Honours, Knightships, extraneous titles—essentially everything the typical micronationalist is in the business for: a longer signature.I haven't often been the typical micronationalist, but damnit, I'm allowed to be greedy sometimes, and if I can't while I'm in the nation, I might as well do it while leaving.Everyone seems to have a legacy here. A Ministry, Fiefdom, Organization... whatever. I just hope I do, too, because right now I'm notsomuch feeling that.Census? Ripped from beneath my feet.Kildare? Same.MiniInt? Who the hell ever remembers admin anyway, especially when there are so many nowadays.Just about every major Landsraad proposal of mine has been shot down for some stupid semantics issue... entire constitutional drafts have been dismissed for fear of threatening the traditions of Shireroth, and the -ONE- time I was about to make a major, likely positive difference, with the new Kildari constitution, my authority was torn from beneath me for of all things, doing my job (and at the same time trying to throw back at Shireroth the same militant criticism of semantics that has failed nearly every one of my Landsraad bills).Many of you may have been wondering why I haven't taken any Landsraad votes from my Dutchess; well this is exactly why. The system is flawed. Terribly flawed. And nobody has EVER cared enough to take the risk to fix it. Erik took a huge step a long while back in replacing the Constitution with the Charter, and another huge step with limiting the Charter's jurisdiction further, but these were all done as Kaiser, and as far as I can see, they were in the hopes of empowering the Landsraad. But nevertheless, the only shit that gets through the Landsraad successfully are treaties and minor changes to procedure, and maybe—just maybe, some confirmation of policy changes that could have been done completely independently by the Ministers.Has anybody read the Lawbook recently? It's so fucking mothballed that I don't even know if it applies to Shireroth as we know her."A Duchy shall consist of at least four (4) Citizens"?"A Barony shall consist of at least two (2) Citizens."?"Each Duchy shall be given six votes to cast within the Landsraad."?All this shit needs to be changed, and MORE. But -NOBODY- -CARES-.The system is broken.Y'know what? Here's my favourite passage from the lawbook:"No Duke may call for the overthrow of the government."FUCK that. As DUKE, I hereby call for the overthrow of the current Shirithian government, 'cause this is fucking 'tarded.P.S. I'm emigrating now.I've tried petitioning the Kaiser, I've tried working with the Ministers. Hell, I almost went to Erik, 'cause he seems to be the only one with a half-sane head around here (not that insanity would be an insult to Shirithians). In any case, it never works, and whatever suggestions I make just get thrown away because someone comes up with a better solution, or—better yet—rewrites my solution and takes full credit for it. I'm not sullen really. All this shows is that Shireroth doesn't fucking need me anymore. So I'm leaving. For my own sanity and in the hope that my efforts will be better recognized somewhere else.Y'know what my legacy is right now? I've got the fuckin' Red Dragon Award. Do you know what that means? NEITHER THE FUCK DO I.P.P.S. Maybe I'll go join Babkha.P.P.P.S. Just kidding I hate them too.

[Tahmaseb]

Yes, the Grand Commonwealth would like you to join our oblastoblast Istvanistan. We like hard working people. Except Loutradis.

[osmose1000]

Calm the fuck down.1.MiniInt - What could you do in this position? Not much. Perhaps if the heathens stop clinging to EZBoard a MiniInt would have the job of managing forum scripts for things like an economy. 2.Landsraad - People are already having large discussion on how to change it, but they've kept it in the dark for awhile, for what purpose I don't know. 3.Lawbook - Blame your Dutchess. She's the Praetor. She might not have had time to do it, or something.4.Census - You derived fun from putting up the same old short form every two months? And as for the long form, you weren't exactly putting any up before it was "ripped out from beneath your feet."5.Doing your job - Doing your job is not taking a cast iron interpretation of a bill and archiving everyone's fiefdom forum without warning. There's this little word called clarification.I'm not perfect, either. I really should be doing more with Minfo, but I'm preoccupied with getting the move to a new host accepted by everyone. I could've been a better Duke, but I wasn't and abdicated. I'm doing my CorpNeg duties to what I think is an acceptable level. But you sitting around saying how everything is unfair to you does nothing but alienate people from even listening to you. PS: If you're emigrating, you're no longer a Duke, so your call for revolution is invalidated. Bitch. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Gryphon the Pure]

Well, except that the ability to call for revolution is only denied to Dukes and Barons, so... as a NonCitizen, I can actually -legitimately- call for revolution.So there. Ta'

[osmose1000]

They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[Fax Celestis]

Quote:For not at all the first time in my long stay here in Shireroth, I feel that what effort I do put in to furthering the nation is underappreciated.The same holds true for all of us. That's why I've left and returned three seperate times. This time, I've told myself that I'm going to build something regardless of what others have to say, and I've done it, and it's good.Quote:Being in a rather pissy mood tonight already, I feel no remorse in finally pointing out that people who have contributed much less to Shireroth than I have walked away month after month with Honours, Knightships, extraneous titles—essentially everything the typical micronationalist is in the business for: a longer signature. Like who, exactly? We've all done great things for Shireroth in one way or another, and its impossible to recognize everyone for everything. If we did that, we'd have a permanent awards ceremony.Quote:I haven't often been the typical micronationalist, but damnit, I'm allowed to be greedy sometimes, and if I can't while I'm in the nation, I might as well do it while leaving.Everyone seems to have a legacy here. A Ministry, Fiefdom, Organization... whatever. I just hope I do, too, because right now I'm notsomuch feeling that.You know why you don't? Because nothing you did was permanent. It sounds harsh, but its true. What did you do that remains to this day? Kildare is under a different leader; the Ministry of the Interior is a job based on change; the Census is impermanent and hardly necessary.Quote:Just about every major Landsraad proposal of mine has been shot down for some stupid semantics issue... entire constitutional drafts have been dismissed for fear of threatening the traditions of Shireroth, and the -ONE- time I was about to make a major, likely positive difference, with the new Kildari constitution, my authority was torn from beneath me for of all things, doing my job (and at the same time trying to throw back at Shireroth the same militant criticism of semantics that has failed nearly every one of my Landsraad bills).Yes,the Landsraad is an old and crotchety institution that needs some fixing. So why the hell do you rant and rave about it instead of actually doing something?Quote:Many of you may have been wondering why I haven't taken any Landsraad votes from my Dutchess; well this is exactly why. The system is flawed. Terribly flawed. And nobody has EVER cared enough to take the risk to fix it. Erik took a huge step a long while back in replacing the Constitution with the Charter, and another huge step with limiting the Charter's jurisdiction further, but these were all done as Kaiser, and as far as I can see, they were in the hopes of empowering the Landsraad. But nevertheless, the only shit that gets through the Landsraad successfully are treaties and minor changes to procedure, and maybe—just maybe, some confirmation of policy changes that could have been done completely independently by the Ministers.As I said.Quote:P.S. I'm emigrating now.Good. Maybe you need a break because you're certainly taking this too seriously. It's a hobby, not a life.Quote:I've tried petitioning the Kaiser, I've tried working with the Ministers. Hell, I almost went to Erik, 'cause he seems to be the only one with a half-sane head around here (not that insanity would be an insult to Shirithians). In any case, it never works, and whatever suggestions I make just get thrown away because someone comes up with a better solution, or—better yet—rewrites my solution and takes full credit for it. I'm not sullen really. All this shows is that Shireroth doesn't fucking need me anymore. So I'm leaving. For my own sanity and in the hope that my efforts will be better recognized somewhere else.God-DAMN it Joe, don't you ever feel the personal satisfaction that the only reason something worked is because you made that one key change that no one noticed?Quote:Y'know what my legacy is right now? I've got the fuckin' Red Dragon Award. Do you know what that means? NEITHER THE FUCK DO I.Perhaps if you spent more time building something and less time pissing people off with your extensive knowledge of the lawbook, charter, and archives, you'd actually have a legacy. But you chose a different path. Viatax Sitadi Axdivijink Regigoraauk

[Bill3000]

I'm not going to say "come back", because it is against the Laws of micronationalism, but at the same time, realize you are just pulling a me here. You know that you will eventually come back because as it shows here, you are too intwined into the hobby. I sympathize with you too. (GASP! Me, sympathizing with someone? I thought that was impossible) I have the same feelings and frustrations, although they arn't as bad right now.But since I am in a devil's advocate mood, I think I'll argue with those who are arguing with you. Quote:1.MiniInt - What could you do in this position? Not much. Perhaps if the heathens stop clinging to EZBoard a MiniInt would have the job of managing forum scripts for things like an economy.It's not a matter of heathens when it is our heritage and otherwise. ezBoard, simply put, is better in all extents as it is. If you honestly think that an admin could do nothing on ezBoard, you don't know anything. Joe has done a lot as MiniInt in managing the forums. We could get actual good colors,for one. We could put the damn quote bar back. It is pointless to even try an economy in the first place, much less integrate it into the system - I rather have a system that makes it much more convinient to calculate activity (And I will still be adamant against moving unless you can prove that the non-ezBoard will have the same features and advantages as ezBoard already has - I'm not sacrificing stuff, and more importantly, I'm not sacrificing my posts and login for almost 6 years)Quote:2.Landsraad - People are already having large discussion on how to change it, but they've kept it in the dark for awhile, for what purpose I don't know.That's part of the problem with Shireroth, as well as part of the reason why Harvey left. You talk about change, yet in the end change does not happen at all, whether it be through the pseudo-filibustering in the Landsraad or a movement to destroy the entire purpose of the bill in the first place. You cannot reform the Landsraad in the Landsraad - the Landsraad is probably some of the best proof of why Timed Democracy is a superior micronational legislative system, despite Fax's unjustified hate of it.Quote:3.Lawbook - Blame your Dutchess. She's the Praetor. She might not have had time to do it, or something.And this is a problem. Moving the bills is not hard at all, and if she cannot simply move and archive them when they are done, she should not be Praetor. Do something about it instead of complaining.Quote:4.Census - You derived fun from putting up the same old short form every two months? And as for the long form, you weren't exactly putting any up before it was "ripped out from beneath your feet."A good problem, namely because the Census did not do much in the first place. We havn't seemingly enforced it well, and people seem to be too lazy to fill out or paste the form again.Quote:But you sitting around saying how everything is unfair to you does nothing but alienate people from even listening to you. Last time I checked, Joe was his own person. There is no point in him staying here if it frustrates him - of course he is selfish, everyone is in the first place anyway. Simply put, if you want some of the more active and productive micronationalists to stay, you have to cater to their needs, not tell them to do the opposite, as it doesn't work.Quote:Like who, exactly? We've all done great things for Shireroth in one way or another, and its impossible to recognize everyone for everything. If we did that, we'd have a permanent awards ceremony.It's possible, and why don't we have a permanent awards ceremony in the first place? I havn't won anything either. Actually, I have never won a micronational award, so you can bet I can understand his frustration. Doesn't help if it just makes people think you are a nuisance than appreciated.Quote:Yes,the Landsraad is an old and crotchety institution that needs some fixing. So why the hell do you rant and rave about it instead of actually doing something?Because thousands of times and times in the past, when actions were taken to do something about things, it failed. It always failed, whether it be through the Kaiser disliking it or the dukes nitpicking it to an extreme. Trying to find all flaws in a reform plan ruins the entire point - "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" doesn't apply here, because you can just make things appear to not be broken. Joe could do it if he was Kaiser - and that's what the job of a Kaiser should be in the first place outside of the hokey-pokey of Shirerothian tradition, to instill a part of your ideas into the nation. The fact that the Kaiser tends to not pick the people who actually want to be Kaiser does not help.Quote:Good. Maybe you need a break because you're certainly taking this too seriously. It's a hobby, not a life.That is an excuse, and you know it - it is the same as the "This is a game" excuse. Even if it is a hobby, it is something we are all involved with, and for some people, what we care about most. To see what we care about crumble down into frustration just upsets us.Quote:God-DAMN it Joe, don't you ever feel the personal satisfaction that the only reason something worked is because you made that one key change that no one noticed?Personal satisfaction is the sole desire of a micronationalist in the end, whether it be through the usual narsacistic titles, or an award, or the creation and participation of a concept. There is no denying it, and no need to blame someone just because they bluntly admit it than hide it like everyone else.Quote:Perhaps if you spent more time building something and less time pissing people off with your extensive knowledge of the lawbook, charter, and archives, you'd actually have a legacy. But you chose a different path. That, I agree with, in a way. Ranting like this, although it lets out steam and gets people in alert mode, does not solve anything, and usually hinders progress. It is obvious looking at this post that Joe made, that he will be coming back, so all this post has done was just harm his own immediate reputation. I know this concept very well, obviously, having blown up quite a few times in the past. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[osmose1000]

Quote:It's not a matter of heathens when it is our heritage and otherwise. ezBoard, simply put, is better in all extents as it is. If you honestly think that an admin could do nothing on ezBoard, you don't know anything. Joe has done a lot as MiniInt in managing the forums. We could get actual good colors,for one. We could put the damn quote bar back. It is pointless to even try an economy in the first place, much less integrate it into the system - I rather have a system that makes it much more convinient to calculate activity (And I will still be adamant against moving unless you can prove that the non-ezBoard will have the same features and advantages as ezBoard already has - I'm not sacrificing stuff, and more importantly, I'm not sacrificing my posts and login for almost 6 years)EZBoard is better than phpBB? BWAHAHAHA! It's HTML is shoddy; doing anything through their convulted control panel takes a normal human five times as long as it should; and they make us pay them for it, to boot. Please get on AIM as soon as possible so I can present my argument to you personally.Colors and images are a given, but they aren't the kind of legacy he's referring to (At least, that's the idea I got.) It's like he says: People don't remember the admin who does that sort of stuff unless he does a more noticable change, like installing a nifty new feature. EZBoard is stiff in this aspect and a php board would be far more flexible and accomidating in this aspect. That's the point I was trying to make.Quote:That's part of the problem with Shireroth, as well as part of the reason why Harvey left. You talk about change, yet in the end change does not happen at all, whether it be through the pseudo-filibustering in the Landsraad or a movement to destroy the entire purpose of the bill in the first place. You cannot reform the Landsraad in the Landsraad - the Landsraad is probably some of the best proof of why Timed Democracy is a superior micronational legislative system, despite Fax's unjustified hate of it.I doubt the change to the nobility system would go through the Landsraad - rather, I think it should be a public debate for everyone to participate in. That way, people who don't have a voice in the nobility can't yell that we talk about change but do nothing because they're a part of it. And if nothing comes of it, then we bitch s'more until something happens. Is Shireroth immune to revolution? No. It just hasn't had good reason for one recently. They call it a signature, but no one ever signs their posts...

[AngelGuardian93]

I suppose throwing one of these threads at everyone is a right of passage for Shirerithian citizens. You arent truly one until you do it. I'm staying the PRH away from this thread... There are no flowers, no not this time. There will be no angels gracing the lines, just these stark words I find.

[jdsager]

As a distant Shirerothian citizen (although still a citizen who views the forums but doesnt post), I feel disilussion is part of the job. Nothing gets anywhere. Micronationalism can't be a hobby because you can't build on anything. It all gets thrown apart, because we are, after all a small microcosm of the world. A little better, but not by much. I say this too much, but a nation is just a reflection of all its citizens. Thats all a micronation can aspire to be. So you are just as much of Shireroth as anyone else is, so I just hope you come back because you care enough to want a change. Anyone who doubts you because you want a change is mistaken, because you are a citizen who cares enough to make a difference. That kind of desire is what makes micronations happen.

[Kaiser Yarad I]

I'm not saying that you don't have a legitimate argument, it's just the "I petitioned the Kaiser" part that I find objectionable. You're an Imperial Advisor, after all, and I've listened to what you have to say. The only petition of yours I remember in my reign was your accusation of secession levelled at Moose and Fax.As for not having a personal legacy, you've said time and time again lately that you're too busy and swamped with work (which at times I find myself too) to dedicate fully to a job within Shireroth. I offered you a Ministry, you said you couldn't take it, which seemed reasonable. My job is not to find jobs for every single Shirerithian citizen, it's to make sure the people who hold those jobs do them properly. I admit that I haven't fulfilled this duty in all respects, but I can't remove people in order to give a job to a person who admits to not being able to be active. Perhaps that's not what you were addressing, I just want to make it clear.

[david northworthy beckfor]

nooo~! dont leave us..I mean them! If you feel an icy chill...the Conglacio is amongst you

[Bill3000]

I have to agree a bit with Eoin's and John's sentiments, as I felt (and probably still feel) the same way as you do, Joe, with the same reasoning. You talk about your legacy, yet with your busy schedule, you do not have much time to do things with it. It's not a matter of legacy here, but a matter of your own productivity. Increase your own micronational productivity, and I would bet you would be much more appreciated.Of course, the fact that the unappreciation process in Shirerorth is a spiral of death does not help. One cannot be productive if one feels unappreciated, so there's a catch-22 here. So what I am saying is that, while you have a very legitimate complaint, (one which makes Shireroth lose productive citizens) part of it is your own problem, as is my own. Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismCitizen of ShirerothBaron of AntyaProud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'We.....are.....not....FANTASY!>?!POE' - Scott Siskind, on hearing Bill Dusch say that Shireroth's theme is percieved to be Fiction-Fantasy based";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="'I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock.' - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'I could probably date Hypatia's Mom. Now THAT'S scary.' - Ryan Caruso"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Scott of Hyperborea]

You want an f-ing medal? You got a Red Dragon Award, one of the two awards we actually give to people. What more is there? You have a Ministry; if you don't like it you can offer to switch to some other open Ministry like Trade, or back when other Ministries were open you could've switched to them. Eoin might even be willing to give up foreign affairs, but the point is you never asked. I was looking for Ministers my entire reign, but I had no idea you were interested because you've always just wanted to be MiniInt.You want a fiefdom? Basically you had a fiefdom; you had effective control over Kildare because Renee offered it to you and you could have taken some votes. If you had asked for a Barony you might have gotten one of those too. Some Kaiser or other took away Kildare from you and gave it to Renee, at the time a completely symbolic move, because of some offense that I don't recall, and as far as I know you never asked for it back.You want the Kaisership? I sounded you out as a possible successor back in September and you told me you had too much work. You didn't even send in a plan when I asked for them. You're not going to get the Kaisership when you don't ask and insist you don't want it in the midst of all sorts of other qualified candidates.Shireroth is not preschool. We don't give ribbons to people every few weeks to show them how they're a beautiful unique snowflake or whatever. You think you're the only person who's done anything for the nation? Erik, Nick, Fax, myself have all done as much as you - Erik's gone, Fax was demoted to Baron against his will, Nick has no nobility or positions, I have no nobility or positions. We understand that this is what's best for Shireroth in the long term, and we understand that most of our work here will be thankless unless you consider the advancement of the nation to be thanks enough.Oh, and getting off my pedestal to return to reality for a moment, you'd probably make more friends and therefore have a better chance of getting your way if you yelled about how stupid and hopeless everything was a little less.Get an attitude change and then come back soon. Do make sure to do both A and B.

[Sebastien Alexandre]

Though you definitely seemed to and still seem to despise me, I hate to see you go.(though I am glad to finally have found someone who despises the tricky little babkhanses as much as I do ::End smealgle voice: Well.. the end of a legacy - and you WILL be remembered for your work in Kildare, rest assured.