Last few questions on feudal holdings

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I'll be proposing the new act as soon as Territorial Contiguousness is closed. A few things I just want some last input in:Baronies. The general consensus seems to be that people want to keep them. There are a few problems with our current system, though, that could use addressing, so, opinions on:Duchy proper. Should people other than the Duke be allowed to live there? If so, what should be the incentive for anyone to be in a Barony other than the Baron, considering it just means they'll have to take an extra set of orders?Incentive. Why should a Duke want to make Baronies when it just means he has fewer Landsraad votes himself?Landsraad vote distribution. Is the current system good? Would a better system be to say that each Duchy and each Barony get a certain number of votes, thus making an incentive to have extra Baronies? Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 5/7/05 15:41

[Kaiser Alejian I]

I will keep silent for now...

[Gryphon the Pure]

Actually, I thought about this the other day, and it finally popped into my head why the system we have right now works. Theoretically, at least.Dukes have a limited number of votes they can distribute, but they don't have to give any out. However, if they do give votes to their barons, there is incentive for people to create baronies in their Duchy, and therefore incentive to recruit. The Duke's incentive to give votes to his barons is that he will ultimately have more people in his Duchy, making it more active.If all Baronies and Duchies were each given a set number of votes, there would be no incentive for a person to create a barony in one duchy over the other, and there would also be less incentive for Barons and citizens of Barons to keep active in the Duchy. Gryphon the Pure- Shirithian Elder - Dutch of Kildare - Minister of the Interior - High Priest of Apostrophe aka Grammar Fuhrer - Director of the Shirithian Census - Imperial Advisor -q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);q=parseInt(Math.random()*gryphSig.length);q=(isNaN(q))?0:q;document.write(gryphSig[q]);

[HRMKingSjer]

Here here!

[Bill3000]

Personally, I think that people should have it so that they "must" be part of a barony under a Duchy. If there are no baronies, they'll just be a default barony of some sorts, then.Perhaps the Duke zirself can own a particular part of the land - a "capital" area, in a way, of the Duchy, similar to Iles de France in France.Personally I think the vote distribution is a bit low in your proposal; four seems a bit low. Perhaps it should be additive for baronies. Say, Duke Proper gets 3 votes or something, barons get 1 vote, and this is culminative - more baronies, more votes, though baronies must have a certain amount of people. But that's just what I think. *shrug* Bill Dusch - Archon of SoloralismQuillan Fatebane, 65th Paladin, Lanys Tvy'l Server (EQ1)Quillan Umbarcotumo, 37th Paladin, Innothule Server (EQ2)Proud to be Apollonianvar txtList = new Array()txtList[txtList.length]="'Whoa! You're in...college now? You got...older! I guess that's what happens when time passes, but still...' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="'The Hindenburg Uncertainty Principle, by contrast states that before you get on a blimp, you can never be certain whether it's going to catch on fire or not' - Scott Siskind";txtList[txtList.length]="Why do I need some cheese?";txtList[txtList.length]="'me to. well almost, we have to worship the living god, Bill3000.' - Hubert";txtList[txtList.length]="'Y'know what? I am never going to get out of micronations. I think I need to be assassinated or something.' - Jason Steffke";txtList[txtList.length]="'Bill, you are STILL young and stupid.' - Jason Steffke, Control of Destiny 1";txtList[txtList.length]="I think we've gotta promote you. You now have slightly more diplomatic skills than a random rock. - Sirithil nos Feanor, to Bill Dusch";txtList[txtList.length]="'Wow. I'm this close to admitting you're no longer young and stupid.' - Scott Siskind, to Bill";txtList[txtList.length]="'ow! I've been thrwappen! Now I have a sudden urge to enter politics...' - Gryphon the Pure, after being hit by a shard of Pure Mischief";txtList[txtList.length]="'As for... Quil, to be honest many of us have wondered about [him] for some time now. The real question might be why he LEFT the lance there.' - Areania, on how Quillan (Bill in EQ1) let Trombonius 'sit' on his lance"; j=parseInt(Math.random()*txtList.length);j=(isNaN(j))?0:j;document.write(txtList[j]);

[Gryphon Avocatio]

Baronies are fine. Let us keep them as they are. Just adjust the numbers for the larger duchies we now have."Duchy proper. Should people other than the Duke be allowed to live there? If so, what should be the incentive for anyone to be in a Barony other than the Baron, considering it just means they'll have to take an extra set of orders?"This is an idea similar to one that has come and gone into my mind for about a year and a half now. To some extent, I must say I like it. My idea is basically get rid of the Duchy Proper and divide the Duchy entirely into baronies. The Duke rules over all Barons, and the Barons rule over citizens (or counties or cities).The only thing is then that if we are going to do a conversion like that, duchies would have to decide where the land that was formerly the DP would go. The other option would be to create a new Barony out of that land, but that would mean appointing another Baron. Since we seem to be trying to cut down on the number of extraneous nobles, I don't see that as the best thing to do at the moment.As it is, the Duke can almost be seen as the Baron of the DP. Under the proposed system, a Baron is theoretically obliged to listen to the command of their Duke, so not having a Baron between the citizens and the Duke is not really different from having one.The incentive for living in a barony with two people over you when you could live in the DP and only have one? Baronies just seem so much cozier. They generally tend to have a distinct culture from the DP. Living in one adds more to the flavor of participating in Shireroth. Besides, I was probably the only noble who has ever been mildly tyranical (ask Kaiser Alejian or Harvey about that), so I don't think there is much to worry about from two nobles instead of one.My ultimate decision: let the Duchies decide that one for themselves. I think we can leave them to decide for themselves without too many problems."Why should a Duke want to make Baronies when it just means he has fewer Landsraad votes himself?"Theories: People will leave the duchy for other duchies that will let them have a barony.It makes people like the duke.Maybe the duke appoints people who think like mindedly, so it doesn't really matter.But you are right, there are some issues there."Landsraad vote distribution. Is the current system good? Would a better system be to say that each Duchy and each Barony get a certain number of votes, thus making an incentive to have extra Baronies?"First comment, I wasn't aware that we wanted any more Baronies.The current system is satisfactory, and I'm in no hurry to change it. The Landsraad has never really had a representation system based on population. This is because all of the Duchies are equal in the Landsraad (a legacy from when Baronies didn't exist, and the Landsraad was simply a One Duke, One Vote system). I feel that we should maintain this system. All Duchies possessing the same number of votes a fair system.What I do want to see is that Dukes possess a number of votes equal to the sum of all of the votes their barons posess. It's a Duke's check on the power of his subordinates which I think he should have.Overall, I'm with Joseph on this one. There aren't any necesary fundamental changes that need to be made. 3e knowe ek that in fourme of speche is chaunge / With-inne a thousand 3eer, and wordes tho / That hadden pris now wonder nyce and straunge / Us thenketh hem, and 3et thei spake hem so, / And spedde as wel in loue as men now do...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Since people seem to be saying different things, there's now a poll on this in the OT. Edited by: Scott of Hyperborea  at: 5/8/05 18:00