Olive Branch Input

[Scott Alexander]

Okay, so apparently a lot of people dislike the olive branch thing but would be willing to accept it with a few changes. This is the thread where you say what changes you want so that I can talk them over with the Babkhans and incorporate them into the revised draft.

[Phoenix the Risen]

I had a lotta grammatical things, but I told you them already over AIM... I could email the log back to you if you need it...Other than that, it does seem like this pact could end up being an Us vs. Them issue.Also, just a minor question... how exactly are sanctioned nations, organizations, or individuals supposed to make an apology or display a change of heart if they are banned from all boards of the Olive Branch Community and its members?And someone may want to move this discussion to the Landsraad Front Gate... Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess Pro-Tempore of Kildare; stand-in for Gryphon the Pure - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - "To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Gman Russell]

I MADE IT INTO PHOENIX'S SIG! SCORE!

[Scott Alexander]

Quote:Also, just a minor question... how exactly are sanctioned nations, organizations, or individuals supposed to make an apology or display a change of heart if they are banned from all boards of the Olive Branch Community and its members?Note the following from section I think it's 7:C. All Member Nations will prohibit their citizens from posting in nations under sanction. Diplomats negotiating a solution will be exempted.D. All Member Nations will ban the citizens of nations under sanction from their forums. Diplomats negotiating a solution will be exempted. Edited by: Scott Siskind  at: 11/18/03 7:37 am

[Kaiser Mors III]

I just think the definition of an attack is to.. broad.. Nick would be screwed under them.... and what about Clandestine operations? Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Scott Alexander]

Clandestine operations are allowed as long as it's just information-gathering and screwing stuff up in normal friendly ways.What would you say to changing section VI to:A. An attack is defined as one of the following:a. Spamming an enemy forum with the intent of pushing relevant threads off of page 20 to deletion.b. Posting "bombs", that is, posts with malicious code intended to be difficult to load, view, or delete.c. Initiating a hostile takeover of a foreign website or forum, either through hacking the passwords or by using passwords provided by some other source.d. Attempting to disrupt the macronational lives of citizens in an enemy country.e. Any other action illegal under macronational law.B. The above actions will be considered forgiveable if done in retaliation for a similar crime.

[Kaiser Mors III]

*Gives Imperial Thumbs up* Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Scott Alexander]

So can we get everyone to agree to this and then imperialdecree it so it doesn't have to go to a painful landsraading?(two new verbs in one sentence...that's a record)

[Kaiser Mors III]

Well, we may wish to move it through the Landsraad... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Zirandorthel]

*bursts out of Landsraad, pursued by noblemen and women waving pieces of legislation at him. Bolts door, leans against it*Do not go in there! Zirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessBelde of the Far Reaches.Niirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Ryan]

Should'nt Section IV also include DOS attacks? After all, that is a relatively new yet widespread method of offense. I think we're going to see more of it and that as such it would be pertinent to include it in that text.*wanders back into the abyss*

[Kaiser Mors III]

Quote:d. Attempting to disrupt the macronational lives of citizens in an enemy country.e. Any other action illegal under macronational law.proly covers it... but I'm not sure I'm familiar with Dos attacks... Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Ryan Caruso]

*pokes head out of the abyss*DOS involves manipulating theEZBoard staff into shutting down a forum and deleting it without option of restoration.

[Mari Greenwood]

Sorry but I still think it is a bad idea and the organization will be abused and people will be unfairly persecuted in micronational witch hunts. We scare off too many more people and maybe micronations will be over. Or maybe that is the idea?

[TonerMan]

Or... Maybe you're just afraid that you'll do something and this organization will accually be able to prodecute you...?I still don't get this DOS attack thing.. how do you manipulate EZBoard into deleting a forum? Wouldn't they look into it first... Holy Warrior of Nee

[Ryan Caruso]

I'm not going to explain it all out in detail, because then everyone will know how to do it and it'll be even worse.Suffice to say it has been done by other micronationalists, i've tried it and done it successfully, and it is a clear and present danger.

[TonerMan]

Surely EZBoard isn't that... dumb? Holy Warrior of Nee

[Mari Greenwood]

I cannot do a dos attack with my little webunit. So, I guess you are safe from me. Teehee.

[TonerMan]

You'de be surprised.... Holy Warrior of Nee

[Scott Alexander]

Well, that's illegal under macronational law, right? And it's also hacking (of a sort)

[Mari Greenwood]

Well if someone can do this then I am sure they could cover their tracks or set someone innocent up.

[Scott Alexander]

So while we're at it, should we get rid of all criminal laws within Shireroth too, since people might cover their tracks or frame someone else?In every case in recent history I can think of, people haven't done either of those things. The Arkanians didn't in Puritania - they admitted it right off the bat. When the Atterans DOSed Cranda, they owned up to it immediately. In the various disturbances suffered by Menelmacar, everyone was always real up front about what they were doing (except with Baracao, but they were eventually caught and never tried to frame anyone). Edited by: Scott Siskind  at: 11/30/03 3:45 pm

[Jadie of Goldshire]

*ponders*I still think this is a great idea.Oh Scott..great pic btw Jadie of GoldshireCarry on with your lives people...nothing to see here.

[david northworthy beckfor]

hypothetical situatin....a person has 4 citizenships.in 1 of those nations, he is foreign ministerin 2 others he has a high up job, and has stood in as head of state.also, he is head of state in 2 nations that are citizenless, one of which he founded.he does something that is prohibited by the olive oil thingywhich nation gets the agro? war trophy liberated from Babkha by the Federated NORworthic Liberation Devision (FNORD)

[Scott Alexander]

If he did the crime because he was ordered by some nation's government, then that nation gets in trouble. If he did it on his own, then it depends whether the nations he's in are part of the OBC. If they are, they'll expel him. If they're not, they may choose to keep him in while the OBC gnashes its teeth because they can't get to him, in which case the guy will get off with "just" being banned from all member nations (which will make his job as foreign min interesting).But to answer what I think you're getting at, no, we would certainly not punish nations whose citizens committed attacks without their consent just because it's their citizen, although we also would try not to let them get away with what a few countries have been trying which is getting people to do their dirty work and then denying any official connection.

[Phoenix the Risen]

I think what he is getting at is... what if the leader of a country, Erik, for example, happens to do the unmentionable? Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Zirandorthel]

Well...we might be using the Line of Succession a whole lot sooner than we planned, unless we continue our present course of having no contact with outside nations, of course. Zirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessBelde of the Far Reaches.Niirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!

[Phoenix the Risen]

Doesn't help that our MiniEx is on unofficial strike...and we have treaties, don't we? Phoenix the Risen - Dutchess of Kildare - Political Nuisance but at least She gets the job done. - Official Genkher of Gryphon Avocatio's Cool Short Sig and Gryphon the Pure's Awesome Tables! - COME BACK, STEVE!!! -"To quote a former Kaiser.... 'Shireroth doesn't give up land....'" ~UEC (Quoting Kaiser Letifer I), In response to claims on the Raynor Isles"To paraphrase a former Kaiser: 'Here! Take Amity for free! And that other half of Mar Sara too!'" ~SaiKar LumEth, (Paraphrasing Kaiser Mog I) In response to UEC"To paraphrase a former angry mob "DOWN WITH THE EVIL LAND-GIVING AWAY KAISER! REVOLT! REBELLION! CIVIL WAR!" ~Scott Siskind, (paraphrasing the Letifer Rebellion group) In response to SaiKar LumEth"I HEARBY QUESTION THE KAISERESS AUTHORITY!" ~Gryphon Avocado (Switching Day)

[Kaiser Mors III]

Since when was he on "unofficial" strike? ..SCOTT! Mortis BrookshireKaiser of Shireroth

[Zirandorthel]

Quote:and we have treaties, don't we? That's a thing, actually, didn't notice it before in my rabid denunciation of all things Obeesceptic. What provision does the OBC make for nations which have treaties together, which include clauses relating to diplomatic immunity, like the one between Treesia and Lighthouse, for example? Zirandorthel I of TreesiaThe Golden DarknessBelde of the Far Reaches.Niirus TinenetuwarLet the fates burn!