Shirekeep progress map

[Jonas]

First example of the new map of Shirekeep (made smaller).
The real version is 2300x2100 pixels (perhaps I'm going to make it larger, will depend of how detailed I want to make it).

I place this version here, in public, because I want to hear if there are any 'requests' to place certain buildings in a certain quarter.

[Shyriath]

Oooh, canals... I like canals...

No suggestions on buildings, yet, but I do have some other ones:

-I think the original intention was for Timothy's Cliff was to be east of the Commercial District (11) rather than the Docklands (21); that is, it should be a thin strip between 11 and the west bank of the river beside it.

-When we get to the point of roads, the network in the Old City should probably be more jumbled (as ancient cities often were), rather than arranged on a grid. Depending on what the oldest parts of the city are and how close to their original configuration they stayed, I'm guessing 1 through 6 and 12 and 13 should be represented that way, with more outlying areas becoming somewhat more gridlike. But there should also be a broad avenue between Raynor's Keep and the Landsraad District, the kind of thing you could have ceremonial processions on...

Eh, maybe I should reserve that portion of my advice till you actually get around to roads.

[Jonas]

Oooh, canals... I like canals...

Yeah, the basics of each city.

No suggestions on buildings, yet, but I do have some other ones:

-I think the original intention was for Timothy's Cliff was to be east of the Commercial District (11) rather than the Docklands (21); that is, it should be a thin strip between 11 and the west bank of the river beside it.

Hhmm. Yes, I clearly misread the description on the wiki. But... Timothy's Cliff is still to the east of the Commercial District, isn't it?

Alright, I will change it. But then I need a new name for 23.

-When we get to the point of roads, the network in the Old City should probably be more jumbled (as ancient cities often were), rather than arranged on a grid. Depending on what the oldest parts of the city are and how close to their original configuration they stayed, I'm guessing 1 through 6 and 12 and 13 should be represented that way, with more outlying areas becoming somewhat more gridlike. But there should also be a broad avenue between Raynor's Keep and the Landsraad District, the kind of thing you could have ceremonial processions on...

Eh, maybe I should reserve that portion of my advice till you actually get around to roads.

No, no! This is excellent information. I will also add an avenue between the temples (located in the Soloralist Quarter), Ministries (Audente Quarter) and Raynor's Keep.

[Shyriath]

Alright, I will change it. But then I need a new name for 23.

Hmm. Maybe 23 could be the airport? It's not too far off from where it was in the other map; it's located near the Docklands, which might be convenient for freight purposes. I don't know anything about what's in Loki's Line and Caeol's Village, but maybe they could be tourist-friendly sorts of areas if that fitted their intent...

No, no! This is excellent information. I will also add an avenue between the temples (located in the Soloralist Quarter), Ministries (Audente Quarter) and Raynor's Keep.

(That could be aesthetically pleasing too, if you think about it... One avenue from the Landsraad, the other from the temples and Ministries, both converging on the Keep like a V or an arrowhead...)

In order to make a city look really good, I think it's always a good idea to have a concept of what its history and geography were like. I would posit something like this:

-I don't know what the landscape is like, but I sort of imagined the land being sort of the southernmost point in a series of foothills. The land would be rising somewhat toward the Keep with the river cutting through it, so that the shore around the Keep, and possibly on the opposite shores, consists of cliffs, for a good defensive position; but however high the cliffs were at the Keep itself, they'd have to taper down somewhat after a while (for example, Timothy's Cliff being only ten feet high), otherwise it'd cut off effective access to the river (and it would either make the canals impractical, or it would mean that they were set pretty deeply into the ground... though if you wanted to you could do some interesting stuff with that). If I have the chance I might try sketching out a tentative topographic map for reference. Anyway, so much for geography.

-So, city development. Obviously, the Keep came first and would've been the focus of the settlement; considering the distances involved in early Shireroth, the Dukes probably didn't meet often, but when they did come together as a sort of proto-Landsraad, it probably would've been in the Keep itself, and the rest of the government would've been there as well. The original Shirekeep would've been a village, and for the purposes of using the Keep as a safe haven the village would have done well to stick fairly close to its walls (2 through 4, and the southern chunk of 5).

-But if the cliffs near the Keep were too sheer for easy access to the river, development would have shifted fairly quickly to friendlier topography, hence the strong growth of the early city further north, in eastern half of 5 near the river. What would account for the western half of 5 is a bit less clear, but if I'm imagining things right that could have been a relatively low area between two hills. So, you could have a major east-west trade route there, coming from the direction of the Hub (which might eventually have contributed to it becoming the Hub), and that western strip of the Old City could have grown up around it, spreading west from the river.

-With all the development happening on lower ground, the common people would have gravitated away from 2, 3, and 4. But those areas would still have been nearer the defenses of the Keep, above any floods, have commanding views, and would suddenly not be occupied by too many people who would complain about redevelopment... in other words, the kind of place that an increasingly rich young city might convert into government buildings, homes for the well-to-do, and generally higher-class districts. Whether or not they would have acquired their more national characteristics by this particular point is up for debate, but it would lay the foundation for having important stuff in those areas, including the Ministries in what would become the Audente Quarter. I'm visualizing 6 as being roughly part of the same process, but happening later, growing alongside the westward extension of 5. The Soloralist Quarter, therefore, might have a somewhat more planned and orderly look than 2 through 4.

-Somewhere in this time period city walls would also have become important. The regions north of Shirekeep would not yet have been pacified, so you'd have a city, getting bigger and richer, which would be a tempting target for raiders and which would find it increasingly difficult to fall back on the Keep as its only protection. The walls might possibly have been torn down at a later date, but it might be cool even then to have remnants of them as part of the cityscape. I've got an idea that maybe an old gatehouse or barbican in the wall could have been what later became the Landsraad building...

...

Wow, that's getting long. Well, I'll stop there for the night. But I think I might do some sketches of all this.

[Jonas]

Wow! That are nice ideas!
If you want the .psd-file (with layers) to draw some sketches, just tell me and I will send it to you.

The shape of the Old City in the west could be explained by the surrounding hills, which enclosed the area, together with a canal that had disappeared long ago but currently partly reopened. While open canals were very important for the citizens in Early Shireroth as their only way to easily get some water near their houses, they later were closed to get more space for new houses and squares. However, under the ground, the ancient canals still existed (and still exist till today) and the Shirekeepians had several so-called 'Water Stations' which gave entrance to the enclosed canal (and its water). In more modern days, a lot of those canals were reopened as it seemed more pleasant and gave the city an extra defence. You can clearly see that the Centre is surrounded by water (the river and the canals), which was partly done on purpose.

I really like your explanation. The trade route is an excellent idea. And it's good that you remind me of the topography.

About Raynor's Village (which was built in the south west of 13): I thought that this village was created around the time that Raynor's Keep was built. Perhaps as an outpost of the Kaisers. It could explain the large amount of (underground) canals in that neighbourhood, which served as defence in a time that stone city walls weren't used yet. The Village, for some reason, succeeded in not getting fully absorbed by Shirekeep. When you visit the place now, you see large gardens and some small fields which served as farm fields. Perhaps the Kaisers wanted to a place were, in case of a siege, food could grow. Historians have still not agreed about the reason(s) why the Village didn't get more densely populated, but nonetheless it's one of the reasons of the weird shape of the Old City.

[Shyriath]

Hmmm... *Nods*

If you want the .psd-file (with layers) to draw some sketches, just tell me and I will send it to you.

...Yes, actually, that'd be a good idea. That way if you wanted to use the sketches to build on, it'd be easier going. I'm pretty sure that one of the programs that came in the same suite as CorelDRAW can open .psd files...

[Kaiser Ometeotl I]

I like..... Though I never suspected that the city was so... huge. Isn't that map at a scale were that city is like 100miles across?

[Falkner van der Sluijs]

100 miles is a bit much, unless some of it is actually metro area instead of inner city...

[Jonas]

Good that you guys remember me of this. Would almost have forgotten about it without Shyriath around to push me into drawing things.

The city is, of course, huge. It's the capital of Shireroth! One of the oldest cities on the planet! And even if it was burned down several times, that doesn't mean that everything was destroyed and that nobody survived. To the contrary. But like Corey says it: it's not all inner city. I would say that the canal and river are the borders of the inner city.
I find one thing a bit of a problem: with the current plans, a part of the city belongs to several other counties / Duchies (the foreign quarters are de facto on Brookshirian soil).