ALL RIGHT, LET'S DO THIS.

[Chrimigules]

...who is a private citizen.

I assume that two citizens is a good base to start waging for war.

I don't even know why you would.

[Jonas]

I don't even know why you would.

I'm not referring to Shireroth but to Antica: two people is a good start to get support for a war.

[Chrimigules]

Not if there's a larger number of people voicing disinterest in stoking one unnecessarily.

[Ruth]

And selfish moment: Hands off my Goldenmoon!!

JADIE - ARYEZTUR DEATHMATCH. My bets are on Jadie.

[Erik Mortis]

Honestly, conflict isn't what Shireroth needs right now. direction and focus. A reworking of priorities... yes. I desire Shireroth to continue on, whole and united. Max should have been paying attention to the climate around here, and known that a secession movement was a bad idea, and has never gone over well. Attempts by an area to take over the rest, that's not unusual, but secession movements, not so much.

Like I said, I'll support any action the keeps the country whole and helps solve the problem. but we really need people to stop using the old tactic of making trouble to get activity up.

Perhaps it's time to try something new.

[CJ Miller]

And selfish moment: Hands off my Goldenmoon!!

JADIE - ARYEZTUR DEATHMATCH. My bets are on Jadie.

Large bet on myself in round 1!

[/zoidberg]

[Erik Mortis]

Plan A:
1. Fight a recwar with Max, he'll lose and the land will stay with Shireroth.
2. Call a national conference to discuss the dissolution of Houses, possible new governmental form, etc. Including possible Charter revisions, the removal of feudalism...etc.
3. Let Ari have his sancts, except Shyriath's. They aren't really land in my eyes so I see no issue with letting ari have them.
4. Talk with Elwynn and figure out what their deal is.
5. Ask people to reconfirm their citizenship. Not quite an oust-fest, but if you honestly don't want to be here, you ought to go where you want to be. But no lands go with you. Period. This isn't a GTFO, it's a "it's been fun, but you'll be happier elsewhere". I think a lot of people don't really want to be here, and be part of Shireroth, and I'm not sure why they stick around. Even if this brings us down to 5 people. I rather 5 who want to be here, and like each other...at least somewhat, then 15 that hate each other. I'll be staying.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

What do you do if point 1. fails, though? If I win, I get to keep the land :P

[Jonas]

What do you do if point 1. fails, though? If I win, I get to keep the land :P

Simply put: no. You didn't pay attention to what Erik said in some other posts.

[Kaiser B'caw I]

1. Fight a recwar with Max, he'll lose and the land will stay with Shireroth.

What do you do if point 1. fails, though? If I win, I get to keep the land :P

I echo what Jonas said. We're taking the land back, but we're willing to do it in an interesting manner.

2. Call a national conference to discuss the dissolution of Houses, possible new governmental form, etc. Including possible Charter revisions, the removal of feudalism...etc.

A discussion is going to be needed, but I'd prefer to keep an eye on it as far as time goes. It's very, very easy to keep talking until things run down, so we ought to keep up some kind of pace there.

I had actually been about to write a big re-Duchification decree, for the interim if nothing else, but maybe better to leave it out as a discussion point rather than passing it just yet.

3. Let Ari have his sancts, except Shyriath's. They aren't really land in my eyes so I see no issue with letting ari have them.

I... actually didn't expect that statement. From an MCS standpoint, too, though, it would make sense; they don't recognize the sancts either way, so no disputed territory...

4. Talk with Elwynn and figure out what their deal is.

Definitely so. I had a fairly reasoned talk with Daniel last night; I don't think he did this lightly. Expect the main issues to be the House system, which we're likely to be ditching anyway, and cultural preservation. I'm prepared for the relationship between the Imperial Government and the Duchies to become a bit more... decentralized, if that will help matters.

5. Ask people to reconfirm their citizenship. Not quite an oust-fest, but if you honestly don't want to be here, you ought to go where you want to be. But no lands go with you. Period. This isn't a GTFO, it's a "it's been fun, but you'll be happier elsewhere". I think a lot of people don't really want to be here, and be part of Shireroth, and I'm not sure why they stick around. Even if this brings us down to 5 people. I rather 5 who want to be here, and like each other...at least somewhat, then 15 that hate each other. I'll be staying.

As will I. The earlier stages of this crisis were the first thing in a long, long time to make me seriously consider leaving Shireroth, and in a Kaiser that's a BAD sign, but... well, I've always considered myself a loyal citizen. Maybe not the most reliable citizen, or constant citizen, but nonetheless a loyal one. If I drifted off, I never drifted back only to go somewhere else. If Shireroth dies, then maybe I'll find a new place... but it's not dead yet.

And if the overwhelming Kildari reaction was any indication, we're not the only ones.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Simply put: no. You didn't pay attention to what Erik said in some other posts.

This is going to require a RecWar to be sorted out. A RecWar requires that both sides submit concessions which the other side will gain if they are victorious. 'Fighting in an interesting manner' as compensation for Laqi Victory strikes me as having your cake and eating it- I'm willing to negotiate- but the Laqi have to gain something if they win.

Of course, Shireroth would never consider herself above the conventional rules of a RecWar... would she?

Maybe the prize for the Laqi just an autonomous Laqi county under my leadership along the boundaries I laid out in the borders of the Laqi Free Republic declaration, shown on the MCS map as the 'Laqi Nation' or something. I see you've done the same thing for the Nation of Thanatos.

[Andreas the Wise]

Max, as I'm sure you're aware, longstanding recwar convention is that both nations must agree to a recwar and particularly any concessions they grant. In general, no land concessions are offered. In that regard, it could be perfectly possible and conventional for Shireroth to agree to a recwar which it treats as a civil war, and allow no land concessions whatever the result. The important thing is that both sides agree beforehand; and if Shireroth chooses to not agree to give up her land, then you trying to demand to take it is not going to go well.

I know you're well aware of this tradition and understanding among nations on Micras. I'm merely reiterating it for those Shirithians who have been more internally focussed and may not have been aware that recwar etiquette allows them to refuse.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

In that case, in the event of a Laqi victory we can assume that the Laqi Free Republic is absorbed into Shireroth but as an autonomous region (or even better, a satellite state) over which Shireroth has full control of economic and external affairs. This region would be led by myself and named the 'Laqi Nation' along the lines of the Nation of Thanatos. The same arrangement could be extended to Elwynn, and both regions would remain loyal to the Shirereithan crown.

Ideally such a region would have the same borders as are shown in the MCS map's rendition of the disputed borders of the Laqi Free Republic, which extend into Laqi-populated areas of Lywind, but this can be sorted out later.
Brookshire Hamlet could remain an enclave under the direct control of the Imperial Government, with another Laqi city slightly to the south known as Maksim-Xala as this new region's capital.

I hope this situation, with any changes you may propose, is acceptable.

[Jonas]

If that ever happens we can better restart Shireroth as a (con)federacy with three states (Elwynnn, Laqi and the Remnants.

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

No; not at all. That's merely the price you'd pay for a Laqi victory, and to be honest it's not much.
Modan-Lach was abolished and I was refused permission to once more be its count and develop Laqi culture.
A Laqi autonomous region with the same rights and responsibilities as one of the old counties is really not too much to ask; the only semblance of it being different from other counties- which it would be given its foundation as a concession to Laqi rebels- would be its name.

[Andreas the Wise]

Sorry, I wasn't familiar with Thantos. Sounds like you're saying it would stay our land but have a less strong connection to the crown than, say, a Duchy, and be run by you. That would be quite acceptable, I think.

[Jonas]

Sorry, I wasn't familiar with Thantos. Sounds like you're saying it would stay our land but have a less strong connection to the crown than, say, a Duchy, and be run by you. That would be quite acceptable, I think.

Atleast... if Max became a citizen again...

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Well it'd have slightly larger borders than Modan-Lach and be renamed 'Laqi Nation' or something, but yeah, I'd be a citizen if I were just left there to fester and draw maps and stuff.

[Malliki Tosha]

Nation of Lakhesis is it. And that's just a name.

[Harvey Steffke]

5. Ask people to reconfirm their citizenship. Not quite an oust-fest, but if you honestly don't want to be here, you ought to go where you want to be. But no lands go with you. Period. This isn't a GTFO, it's a "it's been fun, but you'll be happier elsewhere". I think a lot of people don't really want to be here, and be part of Shireroth, and I'm not sure why they stick around. Even if this brings us down to 5 people. I rather 5 who want to be here, and like each other...at least somewhat, then 15 that hate each other. I'll be staying.

If this is about me, it's not going to happen, no matter what Scott said. I know where the emigration form is and I'm not filling it out for a reason. If I seem unhappy, it's only because I've put a lot of personal effort into studying how Shireroth functions in an attempt to try to solve the next problem before it becomes an emergency, and the unhappiness is usually as a result of being unable to do anything about it despite it staring me right in the face.

[Erik Mortis]

It's more then just you Harvey. I honestly get the feeling some are here for the wrong reasons...

[Jonas]

It's more then just you Harvey. I honestly get the feeling some are here for the wrong reasons...

World conquest?!

[Jacobus Loki]

Apologies to all for my extended absence. RL, work, travel, sick computer(s), etc., coupled with a level of ennui......

But enough of that.

1- Shireroth will live. Erik has said so, and above and beyond whatever our differences may be, I stand beside him on this statement, as do most Shirithians in their heart of hearts. Shireroth will live. Let's called that settled.

2- The Duchies offer the best, quickest way toward plurality and union.

3- Shireroth is an amalgamation of many nations, of many sizes and of many ages. Let that be our strength, our joy, rather than letting our plurality tear us apart.

4- A simple system works best. Kaiser, Duchies, and then whatever subdivision makes sense. The Landsraad won't vote? Let the Kaiser rule.

5- Here I tread on soft ground. Want fresh blood? Lift Tri-Cit. Invent a dodge around it if need be. One of the reasons "feriners" are prone to rage against us is that they want to be us.

Keep a sliding scale of citizenships for higher government authorities, but open the doors. Give them a stake.

More later.

[Jonas]

5- Here I tread on soft ground. Want fresh blood? Lift Tri-Cit. Invent a dodge around it if need be. One of the reasons "feriners" are prone to rage against us is that they want to be us.

Keep a sliding scale of citizenships for higher government authorities, but open the doors. Give them a stake.

What is fresh blood worth if they have more then 3 nations, can't spend much time here and when there loyalty is too divided?


And: welcome back!

[Jacobus Loki]

Thanks!

If those who really want in and are blocked by tri-cit get in, they will develop a stake, a reason to be here. If the are a 2, 3 person nation I could easily see them merging into us, as has often been in the past.

[Harvey Steffke]

Shireroth's always been pretty good at leeching citizens too. If someone in violation of tri-cit joined Shireroth, chances are that the general activity of the place would probably encourage them to focus on Shireroth rather than other countries. After all, it's one of the micronations with the largest forum populations.

Nelaga has a, uh, Quint-Cit law, but I don't think it's ever come into effect, and I'm not sure the government would attempt to enforce it even if it did.