The future of Duchies...

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Elwynn

To revert to the Imperial Government
-Cape Farewell
-Eliria and Utasia
-Smjörkýr
-Cimmeria and Avaldnes
-Illumination

To the Khan:
-Alalehzamin

To Allot:
-Araxion

To Scott:
-Hyperborea

To Leo:
-Wintergleam and Wolfraven (is this 1 or 2?)

To Cho'gall
-Agnesia

Corrections? Negotiations?

Allot - would you consider relocating to Eliria so that we actually - you know - control our own capital? I would shift myself but I'm concerned that Alalehzamin might be de-babkhanised in my absence.

[Kaiser Mors VI]

So.. Eliria and Utasia are two different counties?

[Aurangzeb Khan]

No they're the same county... we have no idea where the Utasia part came from, unless its something obscure and Treesian.

Edit: Back in the day Scott approved of the name, which was apparently chosen by Ric - which just reinforces the Wilfully obscure and Treesian hypothesis.

[Gman Russell]

Sorry Ryan, but you are actually wrong.

Mirioth, Amity, and So-Sara were seperate counties at one time, but I roped them all together (over time) into one county, then made that MASSIVE epic about its culture. the Holy Lands were made up of the counties of MASS, Naudia'Diva, Musica (not anymore), and Yardistan Proper.

ANYWAY, We all know my opinion on this, and we all know that if I rebel, then Erik will flip a shit, tell me i'm doing wrong (while simultaneously lamenting that Yardistan no longer rebels), and ban me/take away MASS from me/any other devious punishment he can think of. So what am I left with if I don't like this? I could leave, but then i'd have everyone being like, "OMG HE LEFT IN A HUFF THAT IS SO SHIRERITHIAN!!!!"



So.

What do I do, hm?

Should I ask that I keep MASS and quitely go along with this even though I don't like it at all? Do I rebel and incur Erik's displeasure? Do I leave in a huff and leave you to this fate?

I don't know. I don't know at all.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

(I wouldn't want to condone this sort of thing but were I in your position I'd play a long game, go along with it for now and then wait for Erik to overreach himself or lose momentum then gather the support needed for a coup, but again I don't condone that sort of thing)

[Malliki Tosha]

[Ryan]

Greg - Even if you don't like it, then go along with it for now, and if it falls flat on its face, then we simply revert back. It's not like it's so earth-shatteringly difficult to swap things around that we can't experiment. You're keeping MASS, it's staying territorially intact, and you're being given an even greater amount of autonomy. So what's the problem? It's not like we're sawing your leg off with a rusty blade. If it doesn't work, then we go back to the old system, and things will be the same way they are now. And I'll be completely supportive of that only when we've actually tried it out and made a determination that it won't work.

[Allot]

I rather like Araxion - couldn't his Niftiness make an exception? Can we keep our own capital?

[Kaiser Mors VI]

Greg: I will NOT take MASS from you. I just was curious what the deal with it is. And I wouldn't punish you harshly, though I would be displeased. But you have made your concerns, to a point, known to me without rebelling. This makes me happy. And as for my views on the rebellious nature of Yardistan. My views have changed recently. Kinda a... change of heart? Epiphany...revelation...or maybe something darker... I don't know. But things have changed greatly since the "grand ol' days" of Yardistan. Greg I'm a little unsure what your exact complaints with the proposed system is though. I want to know.

Allot: Talk to me after we implement the system. I will likely grant a county or two to the houses that form. If a House forms with Ex-Elywnn nomination, I will grant Eleria. Deal?

Khan: I kinda like your plan...

All: I promise if this plan founders, and I'm in the position to reset it, I will do so. Restoring everything to as it is now. (Poor Goldenbrook). If I'm not in power I'll help as I can with rebuilding the current system. But I want to give this a chance and I won't others to give it a chance and not try to make it fail. I also want to do it in such a way as to be fair. Give people choices and a say in the process. At this point we haven't actually committed to anything. Only Goldenbrook is gone, and that needed to happen. But no other decrees have been made, so we can still abort if support wanes.

[Allot]

Allot: Talk to me after we implement the system. I will likely grant a county or two to the houses that form. If a House forms with Ex-Elywnn nomination, I will grant Eleria. Deal?

Not sure what that means, but OK. We'll see.

[Kaiser Mors VI]

'Domination' should have been instead of 'Nomination'. If a House Major forms that has all/most of those that used to be of Elwynn, then I'll obviously give over the county. If you all go separate ways, well.. kinda moot. I'll give it as Fief to who ever becomes the head of the House Major. It'll be connected to the title.

[Andreas the Wise]

Andreas: We can try to keep thing together. But yeah, I'm of the oppinion now that if someone leaves, their lands lose the "historical" protection they had when they were around. This is what I meant by lands being held "hostage" by inactive or missing people.

I understand about lands being held hostage because they're being 'held' by inactive or missing people. I just don't think that a lands history should be wholesale scrapped just because it's previous developer dissapears, it reverts to Imperial Control and it's subforum moves into archives; and then it gets given out again and people forget about the archives and it's history becomes wiped.

Yeah, the ASC system is useful in that it allows you to do something different from an inactive person a couple months back because over a century has passed (and indeed, I used that excuse in the Kildarian history to remodel Atterock); but it's good for people to at least know what they're building on, so they don't totally change the climate and terrain etc.

[Ryan]

I understand about lands being held hostage because they're being 'held' by inactive or missing people. I just don't think that a lands history should be wholesale scrapped just because it's previous developer dissapears, it reverts to Imperial Control and it's subforum moves into archives; and then it gets given out again and people forget about the archives and it's history becomes wiped.

I wasn't thinking that any lands would be archived even if they do become inactive. Instead, I imagined that the Imperial House would also have its own forum, and when lands revert to the crown, they are moved there, and can be doled back out to Major or Minor Houses at a later date. In this way, they retain the posts made by the previous occupants, and can continue development even when placed under Imperial authority. I can't imagine archiving things unless they really are obsolete beyond a doubt.

Erik may have something else in mind, so that's just what *I* was picturing.

[Gman Russell]

I didn't fully voice my opinion, because I wasn't sure where I was going with it, so I stopped half way through and decided to ask questions instead. I just don't like it because I like the current system, and don't find anything broken about it. It seems, as Scott said, to be reinventing the wheel. If you change everything about Shireroth... the flag... the whole political structure... is it still Shireroth? I don't know, and it bothers me. Scott telling me that he changed the flag because he was partially embarrassed by it really took the wind out of me, so to speak. It's making me question whether it's still worth it to be here, and this change isn't helping. Perhaps in time I will grow used to it and find it natural, but right now, it just plain bothers me, and I can't fully articulate why. Make any sense? Proly not, but *I* know what I mean...

[Kaiser Mors VI]

Ryan/Andreas: Ryan has the gist of my plan. You'll be able to pull up the old posts as you can now, because they will be there.

Greg: I understand completely. I too am still upset about the flag. I think it was wrong to change it. I also question how legitimately it was done, considered the duchy layout and those that could vote changed the DAY after the vote closed. And I don't feel anyone was really happy with the outcome. But, when it comes to the internal structure. We've changed that so many times, and we used to do changes of this nature constantly in the old days. In the last few years we haven't been able or willing to do it. Just remember, Yardistan once ruled the entire of Shireroth. And also, the Charter isn't going to change. If it does it'll only be a line here or there to allow for more diverse models. The Landsraad, Kaiser, Judex, Ministers.. all as they were. Only the Duchies are changing, and the rules concerning them. We've tinkered with them before. Hell, we've been merging and unmerging them like crazy lately, before I even took the throne.

And, we can always revert back to what we have now. I admit, the current system 'works'. but that's all it really does. I'm trying to build something that works the same, but is more interesting.

[Jonas]

And I don't feel anyone was really happy with the outcome.

Because you became pretty annoying...

Besides, the old flag is still the Imperial banner. Stop nagging.