Loan defaults, and bankruptcy...

[Erik Mortis]

So... We've had offered and ideas about loans come up with the economy. What if someone can't pay? We might wanna get something going in the laws to deal with it.

[Allot]

Hmmm...tricky one. Because really, what can you do to someone? Repossession of property is out of the question, since no one has any properties. Can't throw them into prison. I think the reason the Judex never really worked is because the only thing you can do to a person on Shireroth is ban/suspend/mute them.

Bankruptcy regulations should be a little easier to come up with, I'll think about that.

[Andreas the Wise]

You can certainly take what money they do have off them; and audit their transactions in the past to ensure that several thousand didn't mysteriously end up in an offshore bank account ...

[Malliki Tosha]

And claim future funds for the creditors.

[Erik Mortis]

Stock shares too could be possessed. Titles could be revoked. Problem is, if you do to much, they just leave, and don't come back. Also, if they DO send money to accounts in other nations, we might want a commonwealth treaty to deal with it. (I'll deal with that through the SC).

Also, I will soon be making a bank mod to let people make, pay, and track loans.

[Malliki Tosha]

Will some sort of interest function be included?

[Harvey Steffke]

How about we don't allow the government to give loans and have any private loans handled via the courts? I see no reason we need to have national laws about this.

[Allot]

I sort of agree with Harvey, although I see no reason that the government shouldn't be allowed to give loans (it gives grants, doesn't it?)

[Malliki Tosha]

If loan parties just make their deals witnessed oaths, we shouldn't have a problem.

[Erik Mortis]

But how do we deal with. "I can't/wan't pay?" The courts need a place to start. Even if we leave it up to the courts to decide HOW to deal with getting the money. The courts still needs somewhere to start. Can they just take money? Can they enact a monthly payment plan... can they take a percentage of future monies earned? Can they revoke/transfer titles? Can they auction off stocks?

[Gman Russell]

If they can't pay back their debt then they should be punished. Even if they leave because of it, we can't simply forgive it because we need people. Debt is debt, even if it isn't real life.

[Harvey Steffke]

If they can't pay back their debt then they should be punished. Even if they leave because of it, we can't simply forgive it because we need people. Debt is debt, even if it isn't real life.

This sort of thinking is EXACTLY why I try my best to stay out of micronational economies. The day anyone loses citizenship for not having enough fake money is the day I leave every economic sim there is.

[Gman Russell]

If we don't treat the economy with at least a modicum of seriousness, then what's the point of it? By your thinking I can use erb to get somewhat-usefull services (map making, 3d rendering, etc), but if I can't pay for it, its ok? Its just fake money in a fake nation with fake people!

[Malliki Tosha]

I believe that we only have to make it a legal requirement that every loan shall be coupled with an Oath of Contract. That ensures that both the creditor and the debtor agrees to the penalty for non-payment. We could even have standardized forms to make the process simple.

[Gman Russell]

Leave it to Maliki to come up with a good solution. Cheers!

[Malliki Tosha]

I has da solution.

[Allot]

Why does that even have to be a legal requirement? If it is a significant amount of money then yes, you should have a legally binding contract ("oath") that stipulates forfeiture clauses. But if I just want to loan my friend a twenty, I don't want the government telling me I HAVE to make an oath. Just let people organize themselves. What we could do is set maximum fines/punishments (i.e. oaths stating that failure to pay a loan will result in the enslavement of the person's family are illegal).

's advocate

[Erik Mortis]

That might be easiest.

[vasroe]

I am glad the new Economy Act passed. It had some productive changes and simplifications. The simplifications are always good because there is always more flexibility when you delegate rather than legislate.

By the way, Allot somehow hit the jackpot on the Casino after one try. I may be ready to pursue a fraud investigation based on the new fraud legislation. Ok, Just kidding. Allot, congratulations.

[Allot]

Yeah, I'm pissed I only wagered 10 . So much potential...

[Andreas the Wise]

When I tried it in Antica, it took me 42 attempts in a row to win. For a measly 12.

[Malliki Tosha]

Why does that even have to be a legal requirement? If it is a significant amount of money then yes, you should have a legally binding contract ("oath") that stipulates forfeiture clauses. But if I just want to loan my friend a twenty, I don't want the government telling me I HAVE to make an oath. Just let people organize themselves. What we could do is set maximum fines/punishments (i.e. oaths stating that failure to pay a loan will result in the enslavement of the person's family are illegal).

's advocate

We could stipulate that loans over a certain amount has to be with an oath. I am against maximums or minimums, that kind of removes the point of the agreement between the contracting parties.

[Allot]

Good compromise. I'm happy with that. We'll see what the Landsraad says, shall we?

[Malliki Tosha]

Yep. We'll wait a while for the bill introduction.

[Erik Mortis]

Doesn't sound to problematic.

[Malliki Tosha]

No, but we are in mourning.