Barons of Goldshire!

[Harvey Steffke]

Please tell me your views on this topic: http://shireroth.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11635

Yes yes, I know you wanting some of the 10 possible votes the duchy may receive is a given. How about the other stuff?

[AryezturMejorkhor]

I am somewhat opposed to it as the system doesn't seem to be too bad right now.

But I'm not that opposed to it. I would rather have it not pass, but its not a big deal if it does pass. It can allow us to set up some sort of local, tailored, interesting system.

However, the current system is very good and is the embodiment of feudalism. If anything, the issue is that counties are too small and baronies too big. We should have something intermediate. This could be achieved by merging some counties. We could call these new units Earldoms and their lords Earls. There would be about 5 earldoms in each Duchy.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Eh, never mind my idea above. It seems similar to the propose in place. Okay then.

I would request though that I be allowed tomerge most of my counties in my current Barony into my new Domain.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Although here is some information for alternative thinking:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_(country_subdivision)

[Santelran Rottsaa]

The "The duke must get 5 votes and can do what he wants with the remaining 5" bit I don't like. I'd much prefer if the 10 votes were split up as the Duke wishes.

Otherwise, *shrug*.

[Erik Mortis]

Then we could have Barons with more power then some Dukes. Dukes must always be above Lesser nobles.

[Harvey Steffke]

Well if I kept 4 and gave them both 3 each, I'd still have more than each of them separately.

[Malliki Tosha]

I find it unlikely that any duke would give any of their barons more votes than himself.

[Andreas the Wise]

Well if I kept 4 and gave them both 3 each, I'd still have more than each of them separately.

I think Erik's example is if you did that, and in Straylight, Ari kept 5 votes, and gave 5 to Shyriath. In that case, Shyriath, a lesser-noble, would have more votes than you, a Duke. And Erik thinks there's something wrong with this scenario.

[Malliki Tosha]

But Straylight doesn't have any barons, or nobles (except Ari), at the moment, so the comparison is faulty.

[Andreas the Wise]

Well, I couldn't immediately think of a Duchy with only two powerful members, but I can so see Ari giving a Straylightian equal/more votes than him.

[Malliki Tosha]

Haha agreed. Well I suppose there are pros and cons with limiting vs. letting every duke decide.

[Santelran Rottsaa]

Well, I couldn't immediately think of a Duchy with only two powerful members, but I can so see Ari giving a Straylightian equal/more votes than him.

Well, considering (as I said somewhere else) Ari likes to spend weeks or months avoiding landsraad politics like the plague, I think it should be fair that he be able to allocate all of his duchy's votes so Straylight continues to have their full voice heard.

[Harvey Steffke]

Haha agreed. Well I suppose there are pros and cons with limiting vs. letting every duke decide.

I truthfully don't see any cons for letting them decide. If a duke really wants to give all their votes to someone else, that's weird, but it doesn't actually affect how many votes are being registered in the name of any given duchy.

[Erik Mortis]

That's what we have Emissaries for. If a duke REALLY doesn't wanna bother, he lets another vote for him. But the votes are still his.

[Santelran Rottsaa]

The votes are zir anyway! That's the point! He goes away? Give the votes to someone(s) else. He doesn't want them voting anymore? Take them back. It's the same damn things.

[Arviður]

Tomato.

[Malliki Tosha]

No, but I wouldn't wanna be outvoted by some baron from Straylight.

[Erik Mortis]

How would the Duke of Goldshire like it if Dolor was able to outvote him?

[Harvey Steffke]

"Dolor" wouldn't be outvoting "Goldshire" - you would just be outvoting me. The political power that our respective duchies have would be exactly the same no matter who wields it. And if the situation every really bothered me that much, I could reclaim the votes I gave to my lesser barons and fix it myself.

[Malliki Tosha]

Regardless, I don't want to be outvoted by one of your barons.

[Harvey Steffke]

Then don't give away too many of your votes.

[Erik Mortis]

Then what you did in your duchy would control our duchy.

[Harvey Steffke]

Brookshire would have 10 votes. Who exactly votes with them is indeterminate, but it would always add up to 10.

Goldshire would have also 10 votes. Who exactly votes with them is indeterminate, but it would always add up to 10.

I am the one that wants to give your duchy more freedom to do whatever you want with your votes. You are the one that wants to tell my duchy what they can and cannot do with our votes. And you're saying I'm telling you what to do? That's nonsense. I can't control your schizophrenic inferiority urges, nor should I be responsible for them.

[Erik Mortis]

From the last time we did this I know that each voter will vote independent of their duke. Unless a Lesser Noble REALLY fucks up with a vote, the duke would never just remove the votes. We've done this before, I remember how it worked. votes given to barons become seperate from the duke in all but technicality.

[Malliki Tosha]

Harvey, fucking chill dude.

[Harvey Steffke]

I'm chill. I'm so chill that frost has started to form on my clothes. Though that could be also because of the liquid nitrogen leaking all over me at work today so it's a bit hard to tell.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

My Duke's line of argument is sound. I agree that as an autonomous entity, we should do whatever we want with our votes, just like other Duchies can do whatever they want with theirs.

Although I ask: how can it be guaranteed that votes won't be given and taken away from the lesser nobility on a whim?

[Malliki Tosha]

It can't and it won't. The lesser nobles are vassals and therefore under the absolute rule of their dukes. I also contest that duchies are "autonomous entities". They all come under the jurisdiction of the Landsraad.

[AryezturMejorkhor]

Autonomous in the spirit that in general they organize their own internal affairs.