Chat Moderation Bill

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I propose the following before the Landsraad:

Shireroth makes no claim to extend Imperial control into the #micronations channel, as it is an international meeting place. However, because it falls within Shirerithian territory, and is operated primarily by Shirerithian citizens, the Empire accepts some of the responsibility for keeping it safe, usable, and productive by people who wish to discuss micronational issues.

Therefore, we issue a non-binding resolution to the Ministry of Information to enforce the following policies:

1. All micronationalists may discuss issues on or off-topic in the #micronations chat room.
2. Ops have a responsibility to be impartial and not to abuse their power.
3. No micronationalist will be kicked or banned simply for expressing an opinion that an op personally disagrees with.
4. If #micronations consistently and willfully refuses to abide by these guidelines, the Imperial Government will remove the link endorsing it from the Malarbar, and assist in the inevitable effort to set up another micronational channel that can.

Reason: Spangle was kicking out people who disagreed with him tonight when we got into a discussion about history, and then kicked me out for protesting his actions. Now Harvey's mad and probably won't use #micronations for a while, and that severely impedes the QUARREL development effort we were conducting there. I'm wary of going back again too. Although I trust Spangle means well and thinks it's funny, he's still being annoying as PRH. It is a firm principle of Shirerithian government that no one should be able to tell us what to think, or punish us for disagreeing...except the Kaiser and other duly authorized nobles, of course!

(note: As soon as this bill gets noticed, Spangle will protest. Then we'll get in an argument. As part of the argument, he will say he obviously won't do it again, and I will believe him, because he clearly didn't expect it to cause this level of fuss. Then I'll retract this bill, and the issue will be solved without wasting the Landsraad's time, which is a pity, since it's starting to get full of cobwebs and I think a colony of rabbits has taken up residence in the Praetor's desk and is starting to build a primitive agricultural civilization.)

[Malliki Tosha]

Hey, no touchy my rabbits. I am trying to form them into an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Pah. There goes my plan to assemble a gang of foxes, eat the rabbits, and declare myself Shah of the Landsraad.

[Allot]

Well, I keep meaning to introduce bills to ban the Ohl'Tar and to make the IB the official religion of Elwynn, but I figured the Landsraad was only for non-RP stuff. Unless I'm wrong....? *hopeful glimmer*

I approve of this, and I officially reprimand Spangle for non IB Learner-like behaviour.

[Malliki Tosha]

Bills go into the LawBook and I don't want roleplay stuff there. But why do you need to introduce a bill in the Landsraad to make IB the official religion of Elwynn?

[Aurangzeb Khan]

IB Learner-like behaviour.

*Reads*
Now, are you absolutely sure that the International Baccalaureate isn't just a front for Scientology?

[Harvey Steffke]

Oh, there was an actual fuss about that? I'm not mad per se... I just don't want to be talking in there if one of the kick-addicts is around. I never understood why people thought it was funny to kick people out of a chat room when they're in the middle of a conversation, especially when the kicker is not participating at all. That was one of the best debates I'd had in micronations in a long time and it was ruined because of stupid IRC permissions.

Could we get a #shireroth channel maybe? And not give ANYONE kicking abilities at all? I don't see the use of them.

[Allot]

Well, it's always good to have someone who has them for crazy people and spam bots...I guess...do they even get into IRC channels?

[Harvey Steffke]

An occasional spambot is a small concern compared to how often people kick people out of those chats. It was why I stopped going in there about 6 months ago. I'd actually forgotten that was the reason until today.

[Gman Russell]

If this makes it to the Landsraad, I will back it.

[Erik Mortis]

It's beyond Shireroth jurisdiction. Though I agree with it in principle. It's getting REALLY annoying. It's childish, and it keeps people who ought to be in the chat, out. It just makes it a place where a few can hang out. If it's only to be for a few micronationalists who like kicking.. then they should make it #kickers not #micronations. One is for them, the rest is for all. I know of several who refuse to go into that channel because they just get kicked by Spangle, Icebreaker and a few others.

[Allot]

Clearly this is an issue, so why don't we arrange a private contract through the Mango Bar? Get the Ops to sign it, and this will all go away. Just a suggestion. Put down the pitchfork, please.

[Erik Mortis]

They would have no incentive to sign. the chat may have Shireroth cits in it, but it's not controlled by the government.

[Allot]

I'm aware- hence my proposal. If incentive is the problem, I see two paths:

a) boycott
b) Khan

[Erik Mortis]

1. Those willing to boycott already won't go there. Other either don't care enough, or ARE the kickers.
2. Has no power in the matter.

[Allot]

1. Fine.
2. How wrong you are.

I tried. Meh. Hopefully this will dazzle spangle into normality.

[Käthbad jënRöijanin]

hmmm, I'm currently acting representative of Straylight, though im not sure if its here where im supposed to be doing stuff...
if so then i fully approve of this due to actions against others and myself in IRC mutiple times in the past (too bad this only applies to the one channel, for a certain someone feels the need to ban me ever so much in a different channel for no reason, [rant] the other issue of which being the channel hates micronationalists when as far as i can tell, about half of the active people in the chatroom at times belong to this forum [/rant])
if not then ignore this and feel free to berate me for being an uneducated doofus in the ways of the Shirerithian forums/govt workings

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Soo...looking over this, it seems that one, a lot of people have the same problem and this is seriously impacting #micronations' ability to serve as a chat room for our hobby, and two, no one has any jurisdiction over #micronations.

I'm going to see how hard it is to create a new IRC channel this afternoon (if the answer is "very", or "not hard at all, unless you are a technological doofus like Scott", I'll beg someone else to do it). Then we can start discussing how to handle the channel. Giving it to the MCS or the Small Commonwealth might not be such a bad idea; I think that'd be more useful than a dedicated Shireroth-only channel. I'll also propose either a bill or just ask the MiniInfo nicely to change the Malarbar link.

[Erik Mortis]

Ari has legal (RL) jurisdiction over the channel I think.

[Icebreaker]

HOLY SHIT THIS THREAD IS GOLD

[Icebreaker]

ALSO GUYS, IF THIS IS REALLY THAT BIG A DEAL, THEN JUST TYPE /join #shireroth (OR WHATEVER CHANNEL YOU WANT TO JOIN) IN WHATEVER CLIENT YOU USE AND YOU CAN CONGREGATE THERE. IT'S THAT SIMPLE.

YOU CAN REGISTER THE CHANNEL WITH CHANSERV IF YOU WANT, AND THAT WILL SET UP OPTIONS LIKE A PERMANENT CHANNEL OWNER, PEOPLE WHO GET AUTOMATICALLY OPPED WHEN THEY JOIN, ETC. BUT YOU DON'T *HAVE* TO.

EDIT: ACTUALLY IT SEEMS THAT #shireroth WAS ALREADY CLAIMED BY SPANGLE, SO IF YOU AREN'T A FAN OF DEALING WITH HIM I SUGGEST PICKING A NEW CHANNEL THAT NO ONE OWNS YET. MAYBE #quarrel FOR WHATEVER STUFF SCOTT'S WORKING ON, FOR INSTANCE.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Ari has legal (RL) jurisdiction over the channel I think.

My jurisdiction over the channel consists of being the one who registered it with ChanServ and has held the registration up to today. At one point I forgot I even forgot I was the one who had it and complained at dr-spangle about him abusing his status . benanne (Sander Dieleman) was the initial channel owner, but I think he let the registration lapse at some point.

Anyway, hear this now, the absolute, perfect, unarguable, final decision by the reigning judge, jury, executioner, legislature, and executive branch of #micronations, on the subject of what will happen to the channel and who should feel which way about things:

- Transplanting the #etd kicking culture was a bloody stupid mistake in the first place and will in light of these events be immediately reversed. Any op caught kicking a user who's not being a big fat idiot will be deopped for a period that's going to be... longer than a few minutes, shorter than a few years. Of course this doesn't apply people enjoy being kicked, such as dr-spangle, icebreaker and me; we are all fair game ^_^
- Yeah, that means that autojoin won't be appreciated too much though seriously nobody will give a shit. Maybe if things work out it'll even become possible that getting kicked will actually send the signal that you're being stupid.
- All of the people involved who did get kicked had had plenty of time to see and understand the kicking culture on #micronations at the time. That they didn't just ignore it and come back to continue as before is their own damn fault.
- dr-spangle asked if Harvey and Erik agreed on something with him. Erik partially agreed and Harvey didn't respond (in time?). In my books claiming that both disagreed makes dr-spangle an illiterate doofus.
edit: - Oh, and of course, yeah, people will continue to be opped by default, almost kinda forgot about that

[Malliki Tosha]

hmmm, I'm currently acting representative of Straylight, though im not sure if its here where im supposed to be doing stuff...
if so then i fully approve of this due to actions against others and myself in IRC mutiple times in the past (too bad this only applies to the one channel, for a certain someone feels the need to ban me ever so much in a different channel for no reason, [rant] the other issue of which being the channel hates micronationalists when as far as i can tell, about half of the active people in the chatroom at times belong to this forum [/rant])
if not then ignore this and feel free to berate me for being an uneducated doofus in the ways of the Shirerithian forums/govt workings

Feel free to PM me with any questions you might have about the workings of our legislative system.

[dr-spangle]

Oh hello

I did say sorry, check hallo's logs, everything is there but he doesn't record kicking yet, bleh

Also
May I note
Just days ago, Scott repeated kicked me to the point where I was physically unable to join, kicking me every time my autorejoin kicked in, for saying "Hi Becca xx" perhaps also a "*Hugs*"
I kicked once, allowed rejoining, and opped people when they returned.

As a pointless note, I was owner of the channel for a while a year or so ago :P


My kicking rate has also decreased a hell of a lot in recent months, just check how much I kick corey, you guys just pushed me over the edge saying that the world is no better than it was 600 years ago, it's an illogical position that deserved an illogical responce.

Blame icebreaker and/or ari for the kicking culture, they introduced it from #etd, they were members there long before I


But as I said, I said sorry if I recall

[Chrimigules]

Kicking a person once for an intellectually questionable argument vs. Kicking a person repeatedly for saying hello

[Ari Rahikkala]

Stop. Go no further. Not one millimeter more in that direction. There's a lot of assholes involved here - yes, that includes Scott, as dr-spangle pointed out now that the complaints have started flying - and if we start trying to measure who smells the worst we'll be here all *year*. The only reason I feel compelled to care about people getting kicked off #micronations is that if I didn't, the drama would keep snowballing until one day we'd find Icebreaker dead of heart attack caused by laughing at the lot of us.

Scott, I want you to *not* defend your repeated kicking of spangle a couple of days ago. At all. Not even one word. Not even to say you didn't think it'd be an issue. Not even to say it was just a joke. Not even to point out an inconsistency. It's not an issue important enough to move a photon around for. It would be if you did it today, but the rules were different on #micronations then. dr-spangle, the same applies to anything you've done. Everyone else... same thing.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Sorry I kicked Spangle before reading this...

[Icebreaker]

<@icebreaker> ari: COME ON, LIFT YOUR MORATORIUM ON ARGUING IN THAT THREAD
<@icebreaker> I THINK EVERYONE DESERVES A CHANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, DON'T YOU?
<@ari> icebreaker: OH, I'M NOT GOING TO LOCK THE THREAD OR EDIT/DELETE POSTS OR ANYTHING, IF PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT TO ARGUE THERE WON'T BE ANY MORE EFFORT IN IT THAN THERE NORMALLY WOULD

SO, ANY SLIGHTED PARTIES IN THIS THREAD MORE OR LESS HAVE THE CHANCE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, ASSUMING YOU CAN WEATHER A STRONG FROWN FROM ARI'S DIRECTION (MUCH LIKE I'M DOING NOW).

COME ON GUYS, YOUR HONOR IS AT STAKE!

[Erik Mortis]

I'm pleased. *moves along*

[Harvey Steffke]

Well I AM going to defend myself, cuz I've never kicked anyone, and in fact do not even know how to do so.

- dr-spangle asked if Harvey and Erik agreed on something with him. Erik partially agreed and Harvey didn't respond (in time?). In my books claiming that both disagreed makes dr-spangle an illiterate doofus.

Spangle said something along the lines of "... and anyone that doesn't agree with that statement will be shot." Which, in the context of the conversation (society's attempts to make human nature better via various programs) fit perfectly with what we were talking about. Minute or two later he says "Well I warned you, you didn't agree with me, so..." and I was kicked out of the channel right in the middle of typing up a complicated response to an argument Scott was presenting that I don't even remember anymore cuz it was so blasted annoying to be kicked out of a heated debate by some jerk that wasn't even participating in the conversation!

Though it proves my case completely that natural human nature f'ed-up-ness is still there in strength and has only been suppressed by society's shift towards protecting everyone, it's still no fun to have happen to you.

Fact is that I don't really like IRC. The modes, the weird text-based commands that I can never remember, the constantly shifting nicknames meant entirely to confuse people, the difficulty in saving logs. I'm not much of a computer culture person... I'm not really interested. I only go on there because other people go on there that I'd like to talk to and I don't really have any other place to talk to them.

In light of everything Ari said, I'm willing to give #micronations another go. But one more kick by someone that should know better and that's bloody it; we're going back to ICQ Stuff chats!

I did say sorry, check hallo's logs, everything is there but he doesn't record kicking yet, bleh

I shouldn't have to check a bot's conversation logs (barring the fact I don't even know how) to see an apology I didn't know existed. But I realize that's prolly all I'm going to get, so it's accepted.