Shirithian patriots!

[Jacobus Loki]

No, I'm not uprising, no revolution, er today, anyway.

No, today I want to tell you about two Dukes of Brookshire, the current, and the perennial former.

One of them stands on guard,at of all things, an auction, trying to keep JASO Shirithian.

Erik, Baron of Dolor, risked everything to try to keep it Shirithian.

Erik's attempt, although bold, was, in the end ill-conceived.

Kostalan Rottsaa (that's Corey, btw, try to keep up) is putting every erb on the line to keep JASO. But he needs your help!

Pledge your erb today to Kostalan Rottsaa in his battle to keep what was and should remain, ours.

I mean, what are you going to do with erb, after all?

I've done it, come on folks, erbs for JASO. Let's let the Rebels come marching home from a Shirithian establishment!

[Andreas the Wise]

Sorry, it doesn't roll of the tongue quite as easily as "Shirithian Patriots", but "Kildarian Patriots" is rather narrow casting.

Those ethically inclined and interested in Historical Justice. There are those who would come before you today and ask for your money to keep JASO Shirithian. Do what, exactly?

Ask yourselves, what has JASO done in the last two years? Have a look for yourself. Until Nelaga expressed an interest, nothing has been done in JASO for at least two years, and, I suspect, had the MoMA not decided to auction it off, nothing more would have happened.

And now what happens? On the one hand, you have organisations which have more erb than the number of hours they have existed who want to take JASO and people support them because they happen to be based in Shireroth. On the other hand, you have the legacy of Jasonia, stretching back almost 10 years. Let us remember who founded JASO. JASO was founded as a joint exercise between Shireroth and Jasonia. But it was the Jasonians who gave it love and care; the Jasonians who used it to create such an amazing array of weaponry, the like of has sadly vanished from the face of the world in the last few years; the Jasonians who created the island of Amity before the MCS map even existed, and placed JASO upon it. It was the Jasonians who made JASO what it is. And who were the Jasonians? Shall I name them for you? Our very own Harvey, Gman, Bill, even Scott.

And what happened to JASO and Amity, Jasonia's only overseas territory? It was taken from them by Shireroth. Now, I'll admit that any accounts of those tense times are biased, from either side, but it is quite obvious that even if Shireroth had a semi-legitimate claim on JASO, they had no such claim on Amity, and yet they took it from Jasonia while Jasonia was still alive. Claiming land after a nation has died and retaining their history is a time-honoured Shirithian tradition. But stealing land from them while they are still happily alive? We all know Shireroth did some bad things in its time, but this particular one really horrifies me.

Yes, FIoJ eventually fell, as do all nations other than Shireroth, and so, for a long time, Shireroth's claim on JASO was undisputed. Shireroth didn't do much with JASO, but it did keep the organisation relatively free from scavengers, and for that we thank them. But through all this time, though Jasonia was dead, its legacy lived on. Jasonia lived on it the hearts of its old citizens, and in the hearts of a new generation of those who played the Control of Destiny games, or travelled the Jasonian tour. We found our own ways to keep the memory of Jasonia alive - for example Novatainia did archaeology into the Jasonian isles, culminating in Kildare's rediscovery of the Ocean Palace. Novatainia and Batavie even signed the Floating Island Pact, saying it would be inappropriate for them to try and revive Jasonia or steal its stuff, but they would forever defend its legacy.

And then, one came who was worthy of reviving Jasonia. Harvey returned from the grave, and led the old and the new to form Nelaga, the undisputed spiritual successor of Jasonia. And then, the MoMA decided to auction off JASO, and it was like Christmas, Easter and Hanukkah had come at once for Nelaga. Just when we were beginning to show an interest and competency in reconstructing Jasonian tech, THE actual organisation that built the original was there for us to reclaim. We thought only those who remembered the legacy of Jasonia would want it, and thus, Nelaga would have an easy bid. We were wrong.

Ask yourselves now what is the right path. Before, we as Shirithians could overlook the sordid history of how we obtained JASO, because Jasonia was long dead. Now it has returned (and, I thought, Shireroth counted Nelaga as a close friend), and we can overlook that history no longer. Nelaga stands in friendship ready to lovingly return JASO to its former glory, and has multiple times declared how happy they will be for Shirithians to come and work in the organisation again. It would be like the old days - JASO, as a partnership between Nelaga and Shireroth. Not stolen, not annexed, not removed forever from Shireroth in some greedy attempt to assert how much Nelaga dislikes Shireroth - no, just returned to where it has always belonged - in Jasonia then, and Nelaga now. Shireroth has kept it for us Nelagans in the long, dark period while the islands of Soloria and Enhasa remained on the surface of the ocean, but now they have gloriously returned to the sky, it is time for Shireroth to return JASO to its rightful owners, and accept their friendly offer to start working in it again, something history has clearly demonstrated Shireroth is not capable in doing on its own.
On the other hand, what have we? An organisation that wants JASO for what - to scavenge off what scraps of the technology they can? (for without the concept boxes Anti-Gravity is beyond anyone's ken, and JHI certainly do not have the Concept Box of Anti-Gravity). An organisation that will keep it in 'Shirithian' control because it happens to be based in Shireroth. Does it have any historical attachment to JASO or Jasonia? Has it shown it is willing to defend the history and legacy of JASO*? Not at all.

Look at the history before you. Shireroth got JASO because it stole it. Now the chance has come to right that historical wrong, and Nelaga isn't even asking for it for free - they are willing to pay for it. Anyone ethically inclined and interested in Historical Justice can do nothing else than support Nelaga's bid for JASO. Restore JASO to its rightful place in history - a partnership between Nelaga and Shireroth, under Nelagan control. Sakat will accept no less.



*Yes, I'll admit JHI has said that they'll also give JASO 'loving attention'; but they haven't made the slightest indication of how they intend to use its tech without access to Antigravity; and they haven't ever mentioned any interest in JASO's history or legacy. They might have one, but they certainly haven't made it clear to the public.
EDIT: And this is speaking from a Kildarian/Nelagan perspective, not in any official capacity, except that of High Priest of Sakat.

[Bacchus]

But there is one misconception going around that I would like to clear up. Let’s get one thing straight before going any further: the Nelaga Territories is not a revival of the Flying Islands of Jasonia.

http://micras.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1860

Just to start, since I am Arbiter, I prolly ought to unofficially address this from a legal perspective. I believe the above quote shakes off any legal claim Nelaga has to JASO.

Btw, I have never had such a "tl;dr" moment in all of my time here in Shireroth. I don't care about JASO. Neither does most of Shireroth I would imagine. It's a hollow frame of archaic crap with nothing worth anything in it. If it ever did, I would be surprised- but maybe I don't give it enough credit, I don't know. But what I do know is that it's definitely ours, and the idea of giving away something has always been anathema to Shireroth. This is the foundation of my opposition to giving away JASO, and the reason why I believe you will ultimately fail.

Might I also add that when it comes between giving Corey money to buy JASO and letting the Nelagan traitors take it, I must admit I really feel option C. Destroy the thing.

[Leo Fenrir]

I must admit I really feel option C. Destroy the thing.

No.... You didn't just go there....

[Bacchus]

It would mean that you having founded the ISI had a reason, so the way I see it, you should support the idea.

[Kostalan Rottsaa]

I could live with that....if I didn't need an Aeronautics division to complement my own Astronautics work.

[Leo Fenrir]

Yes but deletion seems so radical.

[Kostalan Rottsaa]

Not deletion, just a fictional destruction of the compound.

[Leo Fenrir]

Oh! Get to put the HACs to use again!

[Bacchus]

Not deletion, just a fictional destruction of the compound.

Exactly.

[Erik Mortis]

It was the Jasonians who made JASO what it is. And who were the Jasonians? Shall I name them for you? Our very own Harvey, Gman, Bill, even Scott.

Actually.. it was me with some help from Gman. Bill and Harvey never really took much of a roll in JASO, and Scott never really took much roll in the FIoJ that I recall.

I was the one who made JASO and put it on Amity before there was an Amity on the MCS map, I also placed it on the map.... I do admit that I did most of this while I was a citizen of Jasonia. Except putting Amity on the map, I did that after I acquired it for Shireroth.

That all being said, I have learned more info about the auction and will now don't even feel comfortable supporting the Shireroth side of it.

If the Jasonians want it, they may have it as per the auction. Of all the people who COULD make use of JASO, I think they are the most likely. And there is a certain poeticness to Nelaga getting JASO....

I still oppose the auction. But if it MUST happen, I suppose I support Nelaga getting it.

[Harvey Steffke]

It's a hollow frame of archaic crap with nothing worth anything in it. If it ever did, I would be surprised- but maybe I don't give it enough credit, I don't know.

JASO and Amity had many firsts in our sector of micronationalism. A research program with a paper trail of the development of things, even if all the science was nonsense, was unheard of; previously micronations just claimed to have whatever they want, whenever they wanted, and so nobody really bothered to pay attention to what other people said since it was all just words. Amity island was the first mapped location in what would eventually become the MCS map, assuming you don't count the FIoJ, whos map was just stolen from Chrono Trigger anyway. Many historical oddities, most of which Andreas mentioned, were worked out through JASO and incorporated into works of fiction and culture, some of which are still being used today. Time and time again a generation of micronationalists discovers this strange past and gets all fired up about it. It's a good sign of the longevity of the stuff.

You and so many others don't understand this sort of thing because you waltzed into the hobby, saw how things were, and just assumed that everything had "always been like that." Nobody has any respect for the fact that all the things we take for granted in this hobby had to happen one thing after another or we would have never gotten where we are today. Back then we were fighting what I thought was a losing battle against the "old school" micronations that did nothing but snub us. Today, that generation is all but dead, retreated into their little email groups and giving us the entire hobby to do with as we please. I guess a lack of respect by the newer members is normal in any group and I shouldn't be too much of a grouch about it, but it still annoys me to see people saying crap like that.

the Nelagan traitors

Explain this statement, if you can. I was under the impression that we were friendly nations as both members of the Grand Commonwealth. You may wish to be more mindful of your words, Arbiter.

I must admit I really feel option C. Destroy the thing.

Your honesty is appreciated, but statements like this make me reassured at how far from having any actual authority you are.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Ten for Andreas for a well researched rant.

[Bacchus]

JASO and Amity had many firsts in our sector of micronationalism... it still annoys me to see people saying crap like that.

I don't believe the "oldie" stereotype has shown zir face in Shireroth in a while. (And that was a negative stereotype by the way. You may as well have used the term whippersnappers in that post.) It's all been said before and it will all be said again, perhaps soon, perhaps also by you, perhaps also to me. Maybe even by me if we wait long enough! I would mention the way your view of me and so many others discredits anything you say, but it's obvious. I just waltzed in. I'm a 13 year old kid. I take history for granted. I'm looking to usurp everything you worked hard for. Defensive newb-bashing got boring the first time I read it in an archive. Enlighten me, please- why is it that there are people here who have been here even longer than you have that haven't gone off on one like this to my mind since I've been around?

Explain this statement, if you can. I was under the impression that we were friendly nations as both members of the Grand Commonwealth. You may wish to be more mindful of your words, Arbiter.

The Grand Commonwealth indeed! Nelagan traitors are people who have Shirerithian citizenship but are placing Nelagan interests before Shireroth actively to the detriment of the state. I imagine your reference to my position as Arbiter may be a subtle way of suggesting I'm misusing a legal term or something. This isn't a legal context. I've never restricted what I say outside of official posts in the Judex and never intend to (see here for a collection of insane and stupid posts that probably also misuse legal terms at points). I should also probably mention that personally Nelaga's relationship with Shireroth contributes nothing positive, so don't refer me to a treaty depository or the MiniEx. Personally I don't think Shirerithian external relations mean much at all, but for the occasional war- and for that fact they are definitely worth keeping. As for the Small Commonwealth, I keep quiet, because I don't want to sound like a naysayer. It may prove its worth- but for now it's just being mistaken for another more nefarious organisation, in name by you and in nature by other nations.

Your honesty is appreciated, but statements like this make me reassured at how far from having any actual authority you are.

I don't have any authority aside from the power of the post, just like you or anyone else on this board.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Nelagan Traitors = This Year's Babkhan Traitors?

[Bacchus]

They had almost forgotten, Ardy...

[Jacobus Loki]

Whoa!

(OOC: The Nelagio-Shirthians are no more "traitors" than the renegade Count that seized the compound. They are both proceeding in a manner calculated to be entertaining and to maintain an interesting story line. And they are doing a good job.)

However, for Nelaga to pop up like a virtual particle out of the interstellar medium, and claim to be Jasonia, but not Jasonia, but have the moral rights of Jasonia, but they are not Jasonia, even though we should treat them as though they were Jasonia, but of course they are not Jasonia, well that is interesting.

Shireroth is and was and shall be. Shireroth is Shireroth is Shireroth. Who knows what the other folk will be in six months, a year?

"Shireroth sumus. Tempus in parte nostrum est."

[Erik Mortis]

ANGST! *mock faints*

[Jacobus Loki]

............mock smelling salts.......

[Andreas the Wise]

Oh, Harvey says we're not Jasonia, the rest of us are fairly sure we are, and at the least, we're the Spiritual Successor to Jasonia, which is a term Harvey used and therefore valid. Shall we ask the President if he thinks we're the Spiritual Successor to Jasonia?

And if you don't care a tot about JASO, how can you be happy wanting to take it away from those who obviously care a lot about it? That sounds like the cold-hearted-Babkhan coming through, not the caring-Shirithian. Babkhan traitor?

[Jacobus Loki]

Babko-Shirithians have certain traits. So do Nelagio-Shirithians. All part of the charm.

I'm glad that a certain Duke of Elwynn facilitated a repatriation.

(On another planet I'd say E Pluribus Unum.)

[Harvey Steffke]

However, for Nelaga to pop up like a virtual particle out of the interstellar medium, and claim to be Jasonia, but not Jasonia, but have the moral rights of Jasonia, but they are not Jasonia, even though we should treat them as though they were Jasonia, but of course they are not Jasonia, well that is interesting.

Shireroth is and was and shall be. Shireroth is Shireroth is Shireroth. Who knows what the other folk will be in six months, a year?

"Shireroth sumus. Tempus in parte nostrum est."

Easy quote to throw around when times here are good. I've seen more months than I prefer to count of rampart Shirerothan inactivity and completely collapses of the government. And though you could make the case that new blood and new energy revitalized the nation and that Shireroth never really died, I could easily make the same case about Jasonia and its spiritual successor of Nelaga. The difference in the long run is relatively minor. Nelaga has a good chance of survival as long as they can find their place in the world, but even if (stars forbid!) it folds, the loss of the forum would mean little. The "other folk" aren't going anywhere. Completely without my help, people in the past have continuously rediscovered Jasonian culture and liked what they saw. At this point I have to do very little to keep things running.

Frankly, coming from the leader of Maraguo Vrystaat, as well as someone I thought generally had an interest in the hobby and its twisted evolutions, I find your anti-Nelagan stance just flat-out bizarre.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

... I thought generally had an interest in the hobby and its twisted evolutions, I find your anti-Nelagan stance just flat-out bizarre.

I've helped you by underlining the relevant parts that will answer your own question.

[Harvey Steffke]

Are you suggesting that Jacobus chooses not to agree with himself if the thinks it would be a more interesting plot development?

Cuz, that really does explain basically everything.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

You may think that, but I couldn't possibly comment...

[Jacobus Loki]

There is not an anti-Nelagian bone in my body. I certainly cannot hate a nation where I'm partly considered as a demi-god (-gogue?).

No, Nelaga/Neo-Jasonia has my blessings. Time constraints kept me from visiting until lately.

We all have conflicting loyalties to some extent. It's because I follow the gyrations of this world and care about what happens, that as a Shirithian, I want to keep anything old and historic. I'm annexationist in the extreme, to the point where I've gifted all of my family's micronational creations to the Imperial Republic, such as they are.

I WANT THE MANGO MAP!

As a Yardistani, I know it all belongs to us, anyway, and that someday everyone will figure that out.

I miss Maraguo. It was a great time, with great people. I especially miss Jess, and the fun that he and I and Jonas (and some others) had.

I am loyal to the Kaiseress, for many reasons, and as such, I had to help put down the attempt at a coup, and the seizure of Crown property, and of her person.

As an ancient micronationalist, I'm extremely sympathetic to Erik's desire to keep JASO. He found it in the wreckage, brought it home and preserved it.

I am loyal to my own ambitions, thus I am quite sympathetic to the Babkhan people.

So, bottom line, as far as JASO goes, if a Shirithian cannot have it, I'd like to see it go for the highest possible price, and am working toward that goal.

AND AS A CYBERIAN, I WILL LEGALLY DESTROY YOU ALL!

[Andreas the Wise]

AND AS A CYBERIAN, I WILL LEGALLY DESTROY YOU ALL!

Don't make me set Fides on you. I was hoping I wouldn't have to ...

[Gman Russell]

am loyal to the Kaiseress, for many reasons, and as such, I had to help put down the attempt at a coup, and the seizure of Crown property, and of her person.

So much for Yardistan being a duchy of rebellion. So goes the passing of an age. *sigh*

[Aurangzeb Khan]

He has revolted against the preconceptions of what is to be a Yardistani, and therefore become meta-Yardistani.

[Harvey Steffke]

As an ancient micronationalist, I'm extremely sympathetic to Erik's desire to keep JASO. He found it in the wreckage, brought it home and preserved it.

This is the only thing I'll disagree with. He didn't find it in the wreckage; he stole it from our warm, living hands by invoking a founder's so-called right to yell MINE! very loudly and it's been abandoned every since. I actually did JASO stuff here on the Shirerothian forums than any other Shirerothian has in the entire history you guys have had the organization. I wrote vehicle profiles from the extremely-detailed Omen down to a few prototypes that barely got more than a few posts to them. I think all this stuff was lost in the EzPurge, which sucks because the EzPurge also deleted all the reference material I used to build the profiles. ARGH.

In any event, no. Dressing up theft as a good deed ain't flying in this particular case.