Praetorial overthrow

[Jonas]

We can't let this happen. Dukes, Barons, Counts, prepare for war!

Count of Blackrock: against who my lord?
Duke: Against everyone who doesn't recognise my Praetorial powers! Muhahaha!

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

Hmm...

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...
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Andreas, want to be Duke of Kildare?

Jonas, understand that Erik still needs the support of 3 dukes to be made Prætor. You will certainly vote against him. Brookshire will likely vote in his favor. So you have the votes of Elwynn, Yardistan, and Straylight that are still up in the air, and free for you to attempt swaying. War against other Duchies, especially those in expressed support of the Crown, shall be consider rebellion against the Crown, and will be quickly thwarted.

[Jonas]

But I wanted my rebellion...

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

I didn't say you couldn't rebel, I just said you'd be thwarted.

[Malliki]

This is not an overthrow. The Praetor is responsible to the Landsraad. I as a member of the Landsraad do not support you anymore. I propose a new Praetor. You cannot claim the position as yours forever.

[Erik Mortis]

Cause it hasn't been your forever. Hell, I've had it several times, and even ran the Live Landsraad session when I was Praetor... that was fun...

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Jonas, calm it Kermit. We don't need a revolution. You get the Charter the way it was before and, I hope, Yardistan will support you. One more Duke and you're fine.

[Jonas]

Jonas, calm it Kermit. We don't need a revolution. You get the Charter the way it was before and, I hope, Yardistan will support you. One more Duke and you're fine.

No revolution or rebellion? I wanted to end with a BANG.

I need to admit that I prefer to see the job of Praetor of a new person who needs it. Erik doesn't really need it to get some influence, he has enough. A lot of people will agree with him just because he is the Founder (sorry, Erik. I don't want to offend you, you have a lot of nice ideas). I actually hoped to give the function to someone who needs it more to get heard.

[Malliki]

It's not like you can pass it on like the Olympic games torch. You can propose someone else for the Praetorship as well, it doesn't have to just be between you and Erik.

[Jonas]

I nominate Mylittlepony, the Maraguan pony!

[Kaiser Reynardine I]

A lot of people will agree with him just because he is the Founder (sorry, Erik. I don't want to offend you, you have a lot of nice ideas).

Actually, me and Erik disagree on a lot of things, as do a lot of big names around here (I've seen disagreement from Scott and Ari many times before).

[Erik Mortis]

As it stands.. I have ZERO official influence. And Founder doesn't get me very far honestly, and I never(rarely?) invoke it actively or on purpose.

The Praetorship is meant to go to a capable person, not just someone who needs to be heard. If they can't get heard without it, maybe they aren't ready for it...

[Jonas]

I remember that you told to me that the job of Praetor was something good for new members to start with and get some influence.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Erik has obviously changed his mind about the Praetor and therefore the role has transformed to conform.

[Erik Mortis]

*shrug* I say lots of things. I can't keep track of them all. I don't recall saying that. And I may have been just trying to be nice and reassuring. If so, someone shoot me the next time I try to be nice...

[Jonas]

*shrug* I say lots of things. I can't keep track of them all. I don't recall saying that. And I may have been just trying to be nice and reassuring. If so, someone shoot me the next time I try to be nice...

Or drunk...

[Erik Mortis]

Someone shoot me in that situation too.... Especially if being Nice and Drunk.. or being Nice'n Drunk.

[Jacobus Loki]

We all love Erik. But if Shireroth is to grow strong and evolve beyond its position as Erik's dreamchild, at some time he needs to be told "No".

Gently, respectfully, and teary-eyed, but he needs to be told "No".

"No" in this particular instance. Not "Never", just "No, not today".

Jonas has whatever support I am able to give him.

We all Respect the Founder. But there were four "ReFounders" who kept Shireroth alive when everyone else had given up on it. Jonas is one of those four, and the only one who held an official position at the time.

Erik founded Shireroth. Jonas saved it.

Both are worthy.

Jonas is being pursued solely and exclusively because he had the gall to support his Kaiser. He is being asked to pay for my "sins".

[Ari Rahikkala]

* sets flamethrower to stun *
* fires at Erik *

[Erik Mortis]

*Is stunned and retracts statement*

[Jacobus Loki]

(Sigh)

Shall we have a truce?

[Erik Mortis]

Personal truce... maybe.. stop going around saying how I need to hear "no" as founder, and I'll let up on attacking you personally for making the changes.

But I will still see them removed. Either in this Kaisership, or my own.

This Praetor thing isn't me, but I am increasingly thinking it might be needed, ironically your arguments are the reason. Jonas knew exactly what he was doing, this was no mistake it was a deliberate action. Some actions come at a cost politically. Gods know I've payed enough for my choices in this nation time and again.

Further, this all makes me think it's more and more imperative that we add the Arbiter to the Amendment process.

Finally, if you had not used the charter to make the changes, I wouldn't even be here. I don't WANT to be here.