If I ask here, I won't seem stupid

[Andreas the Wise]

Last person who asked this on MNN got shot, so I'll just ask here. Enough old micronationalists to tell me ....
When will people start organising this year's FNORDs? I know it's announced Dec/Jan but are they meant to be started in November or only December?

On a similiar topic, when do we do the Malarbor-Awards ("Better than a FNORD")?

[Maksym Hadjimehmetov]

Meh. What's a FNORD worth these days anyway?
The FNORD award was one of the very clever ways the MNN-clique bigged themselves up as 'master micronationalists'. I mean, what gave Darcy, Liam and co the 'authority' to judge micronations as though they owned the whole damn hobby?
Sorry, I just get quite fired up about the whole MNN issue.

[Jonas]

I mean, what gave Darcy, Liam and co the 'authority' to judge micronations as though they owned the whole damn hobby?
Sorry, I just get quite fired up about the whole MNN issue.

It's true.

[Kaiser Loki III]

I mean, what gave Darcy, Liam and co the 'authority' to judge micronations as though they owned the whole damn hobby?

Maybe we should consider bringing FNORD here? The Landsraad of Shireroth is as good a committee as any, and better than most.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I sincerely doubt the People's FNORD Awards will happen this year, or any other year. If they will they will be on Microhub.

I suggest we take over, not as the FNORD Awards but as the Malarbor Awards as someone has already mentioned.

[Iskander Mirkdale]

Just for the record, the FNORD Awards were created November 2002 by a certain Scott of Hyperborea. Presumably he felt it would make sense for them to be held in a central venue, with a variety of judges drawn from various nations, either by private or public invitation, although the second FNORDs were judged entirely by the public.

[Erik Mortis]

I won the first life time achievement award... back when the FNORDs meant something.

[Andreas the Wise]

I thought the three won by my nations counted as something ....

Though to be honest I can't entirely remember the judging process but I'm fairly sure it was judges from the general public .... that's what we'd have to get if we wanted to run our own version and make it seem credible.

Alternatively, someone like Scott could just go onto Microhub and say "Right, I'm running the FNORD's this year, accepting two/four other judges from the general public. Nominations?" It may well amount to the same thing, but it'd appear more credible and wouldn't (necessarily) be yelled off as Shireroth arrogantly acting as if they owned the hobby. Because if anyone does, Scott just points out he founded the whole thing ...

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

my nations

AHEM!

[Andreas the Wise]

my nations = shorthand for "Nations I am heavily involved in"

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

Then stop using possessive!

[Andreas the Wise]

How would you shorthand that phrase in 9 letters or less?

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

Without the possessive!

[Andreas the Wise]

I thought the three won by nations counted as something .

Nah, it just doesn't have the same ring to it ...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I think the FNORDS jumped the shark the year that the GSO (aka "copy the MCS, but put in in Grand Commonwealth control") won the "Most Original Idea" award. Or maybe it was the third time they refused to give the journalism award to Foghorn on account of KZFO being "entertainment" and not "journalism". Or maybe...

But no, we can't bring it to Shireroth. That would have just as much potential for bias, if not more. Andreas' idea is a good one.

[Iskander Mirkdale]

Which is why he is known as Andreas the Wise.

[Chrimigules]

It could be hosted by Shireroth but judged by micronationalists from different nations?

[Scott of Hyperborea]

It could be, but people would get angry and accuse us of bias whether we were biased or not, which I'd rather avoid.

[Chrimigules]

Weren't the FNORDs accused of bias as well?

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Yes. They'll be accused of bias no matter what, but we might as well do as much as possible to make it difficult for those accusations to stick.
I hope Shireroth will win a lot of awards this year. If we host it in Shireroth, and Shireroth wins a lot of awards, those accusations will stick.

...think of it this way. If Babkha said "Okay, we're hosting the FNORDs on the Babkhan forums this year", we'd probably all form an angry mob and riot. I don't want any other countries to feel they have to do that.

[Jess]

MAYA Awards are in February if anyone wants to help with that.

[Andreas the Wise]

Which is why he is known as Andreas the Wise.

Thanks Iskander.

The reality is any nation hosting it will be perceived as bias. We can only hope that the MCS/GSO division has simmered down a bit and that won't be perceived as bias either way ... If we can start it on MNN without people thinking there's immense inherent bias we have a chance.

Also ... dunno if this is standard or not, but it would make sense if judges are not allowed to win awards, either personally or for things they created. So anyone who takes on the responsibility of judging cannot win an award. Obviously their nation still can, but they can't. (For example, if Scott judged, he would be able to give Shireroth an economy award, but he wouldn't be able to give an award for Yvain's Scavenger Hunts, since he was obviously involved in that. If I was judging, the reverse.) Ideally, you want judges who are either well respected and known to be not too biased, or ones that have been widely involved and so can recognise a lot of worthy recipients already (although public nominations for awards lowers the need for this somewhat). The last thing you want is what happened to Cairney's attempt at Micran awards, where someone, can't remember who, think it was him, just decided who the nominees were, and then we voted, with the result, for example, that Passas or Gralus won the military award the year we'd lost WW2 ....

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

Didn't I win a Micras Award? Or was that a MAYA? Or are those the same things...?

[Andreas the Wise]

MAYA was the Micras one, yeah ...

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

Proof that those awards are broken...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I would be a bit reluctant to let judges vote for their own nations.

I happen to think Shireroth's economy is the best thing in a long time. But as a Shirerithian, I know more about our economy than I know about, say, CITRA, I'm subconsciously rooting for Shireroth, and I don't trust myself to be unbiased about it. Likewise, the past few years when we've had judges from Babkha and the GSO countries, it was always Babkha and the GSO countries that won stuff. I don't think they were being deliberately biased, but I do think they were able to appreciate their own things more than stuff they'd heard rumors about in foreign countries.

I think the best solution would be the People's Choice Awards, or a panel of judges like Dr. Spangle who are respected but also from weird nations that probably wouldn't be up for much, followed by banning judges from voting for their own nations (but that would penalize judges' nations, so I don't know).

It's too bad there's the whole GSO/MCS thing that flared up recently. Liam would be a perfect judge - not a whole lot of national affiliations, knows everything, has been around a while - but I wouldn't trust him not to unconsciously vote for GSO stuff over MCS stuff. He probably feels the same way about me, and is probably justified.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

http://microhub.org/index.php?topic=84.msg818#msg818

[Andreas the Wise]

Um ... the old CITRA economy sounded great but nothing happened. The new one is, I think, rather nifty, but we haven't had a chance to test it yet as Bayen's still coding the bank ...

But yes, I entirely understand what you mean about knowing different things. That's why we have to try and ensure a variety of judges. Or people's choice, possibly (but how does one organise that? One vote per nation? One vote per person registered on MNN? I can see branch stacking ...)

[Jonas]

MAYA Awards are in February if anyone wants to help with that.

Count me in.

[Kaiser Loki III]

(Smiles warmly at all concerned.)

Wonderful.

I think the Malarbor Awards are also a great idea.