Tricit opinions

[Ari Rahikkala]

Not asking for a deep debate here, just quick opinions (though you're free to debate if you like ). The wiki page written by Fax in 2005 says the fundamental core of Shireroth believes even dual citizenship should be illegal... and I'm pretty sure that's outdated. My opinion is that tricit works, and the only restriction beyond it that we should even be considering is limiting dukes to dualcit. And even that should only be done if we actually have more than one reliable candidate for duke of each duchy, which we don't have at the moment (Elwynn's rather empty with only Ric and one half of Scott active in it, and Ric's got citizenships in Babkha and Hurmu AFAIK).

What's your opinion on the tri-citizenship law?

[Jonas]

What's your opinion on the tri-citizenship law?

I'm from the opinion the law needs to stay what it is. Three citizenships are enough. Some people need more then one nation (especially those who are new and are trying to find the right kind of micronation for themselve), mostly because of their enthousiasm and you can't do everything in Shireroth because it doesn't work with the Shirerithian theme (absolutism, Kaiser, feudalism,...), etc.

[Artz]

Hmm.. tri-law..Glad this came up actually.

I think that there must be some other way to keep control over the activity of citizens, myself. See, I do think its a good idea - in the sense where 'the less Micronations people are involved in, the more active they're likely to be'..fair enough.

But, in the other view, theres people, like myself, where even though I'm involved in quite a few nations (actually, I'm cutting down, but can't cut down enough =/) I'll still be active if I had citizenship and would do my best to produce quality posts and contribute. However, I can't get citizenship because I don't with to leave one of my three other nations. So.. I think theres got to be some alternative, or it could possibly be done by a case-by-case basis.

But.. tis a tough situation, really.. I agree with why its there, just not it

[Andreas the Wise]

I used to think that when I joined, Art (I quickly dropped several citizenships) but soon realised that Shireroth was the only other nation I ever totally felt at home like I did in Nova/Toki. All the other I'd sort of participate on the fringes (or, if it was only a two man show, sort of in the middle) but I knew it wasn't really right for me to be ministers in those countries, and didn't really mind giving them up.

And you know what? Not being in those countries has freed up my time so I can do more of the micronationaling I really enjoy, which I think is a really good thing. So I'm quite happy with the Tri-Cit law.

The obvious alternative is the primary-citizenship law but that'd discount me, so I'm all for Tri-Cit.

[Jonas]

Like Andreas told it, it's the same situation with me. Only negative part in my case is that I don't speak fluent English so it's a bit harder to expres myself.

[Kaiser Loki III]

I think tri-cit is limiting, but that it's a reasonable compromise between two ideals.

[Orion]

You know, you could always create a peripheral ranking of citizenship with no limitations, like a bare-bones version with no authority or options for progress, for those of us who like it here but do a lot of things elsewhere. *cough*cough*nudge*

It'd be like buying a hosting package. Well the "Free" version comes with ads, and you have to pay to get rid of them, or pay more for extra features. So the "Free" citizenship means you can't even become a Count, but have to remain a mere Peasant until you opt to "pay more" by dropping other citizenships.

Just an idea.

[Kaiser Loki III]

Nice to see you again, Ryan!

Companions of Shireroth? Resident alien status?

[Erik Mortis]

Obviously, I support Tri-cit whole heartedly. and we all know I would rather do away with Duel cit too. But there you have it.

If nothing else it's an easy was to deal with things. Straight forward.

[Malliki]

I think Ryan has a point. The Registrar could issue Resident Alien Status to those wishing to be here but not be citizens. I like it. F&B can be hired to draft a bill.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Isn't that Denizen status? Don't some people like Artz already have it?

I too agree with Tri-Cit. It has nothing to do with activity levels, or commitment, or even potential conflicts of interest. It has to do with identity. Bahram from Babkha used to have a saying: "We don't want micronationalists who live in Babkha, we want Babkhans." By the time you have four citizenships, you're not a Shirerithian anymore, you're a guy who likes joining micronations and includes Shireroth in that statement. And I think that's (on average) true whether or not you spend a lot of time here or not. Tri-Cit is the compromise between that level of purism and practicality.

Speaking of which, Mike told me yesterday that Dukes are no longer limited to two citizenships. Is that true? If so, when and why did it change?

[Ari Rahikkala]

I didn't find any references to it in the Lawbook, Decreebook or Charter... could have been lost in the lawbook reset maybe?

[Erik Mortis]

Then we need to add it back?

[Malliki]

Do we? Why should Dukes be limited to just two citizenships when everyone else (except the Kaiser / Steward) can have three?

[Chrimigules]

It has a tiered quality to it. Dukes are expected to contribute more heavily and concentrate more heavily, and Kaisers and Stewards are expected to do so most of all.

EDIT: By the way, I think limiting of citizenships is a good idea. Antica's carried that policy in one form or another through its incarnations, with more stringent requirements for leadership.

[Andreas the Wise]

If you wanted to add Denizen status, the only purpose it would have would be if you allowed them to become counts. Or participate in the economy. Otherwise, its just someone who posts around the nation and you can do that as a diplomat without needing a fancy title that confers no actual benefit.

[Kaiser Loki III]

a fancy title that confers no actual benefit.

By such titles are micronationalists led.

Napoleon I, paraphrased

[Erik Mortis]

Traditionally a Denizen is ANYONE in shireroth. But they aren't necessarily the Citizen.

[Malliki]

My experience says that micronationalists love titles.

[Kaiser Loki III]

Some of us have been known to collect them!

[Prodigy Almighty]

*Stares intently at King Andreas the OVERTITLED*

Indeed some of us do.

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

*looks at Andreas*

[Kaiser Loki III]

Looks at self.....

[Andreas the Wise]

My Kaiser ... no offence, but you're nothing on my number of titles.

[Kaiser Loki III]

I don't print them all anymore. I'll PM a list to you some day.

[Kaiser Loki III]

P.S.

http://shireroth.kuroshiro.net/forum/vi ... f=7&t=7785

We did pass it.

[Ari Rahikkala]

Jonas! Update the Lawbook!

(actually, looking back on that, it probably should have gone in IX. E. (a new section in the chapter on citizenship) rather than VI. E. (the MiniImNat)... ah well, got to fix that one day...)

[Andreas the Wise]

I don't print them all anymore. I'll PM a list to you some day.

There is a topic somewhere in the Novan archives that lists several dozen for me ...

[Malliki]

Seriously, in order for me to do my job properly all lawbooks have to be current. I shouldn't have to browse the Landsraad archives everytime soms me about this or that. The Prætor has a duty to update the LawBook, period.

[Jonas]

This Praetor wants to be payed. Period.


And it's my duty to avoid that arbiters and 'justice' get to much influence.