Hesam

[Andreas the Wise]

People want to give a billion dollars to us to control ... and give us free reign about how we put it into the economy (at least, until they add a budget balancing law). We almost need a private forum to discuss the possibilities inherent here ...

[Erik Mortis]

I would advise moderation. This just means there is more money to make things make sense. If you start giving out HUGE bounties, it will undo all that creating the money has done.

Calculate what seems a fair hours work, and pay based on that. with 1 erb equal to about 6.5USD... 1 erb is the US min wage.

[Andreas the Wise]

Oh believe me, my plan includes moderation.

[Erik Mortis]

In the same context that I mean?

[Andreas the Wise]

I'm thinking instead of 20, 100 seems a fair amount for a standard bounty now. That moderate enough for you?

[Malliki]

No. Keep the bounties as they are. Why increase the bounties five times? They are large enough already.

[Erik Mortis]

I intended the leaving of bounties as they are. Else you create the same problem I sought to fix.

I say leave the bounty sizes as be, just give out more. Taking into account what a erb roughly equals in terms of work. And the economy will begin to take shape on its own over time. If we rush it to maturity we may not like the results.

[Andreas the Wise]

No. Keep the bounties as they are. Why increase the bounties five times? They are large enough already.

Er ... because someone wants one billion in circulation, perhaps? Or at least, two someones want more money around so people don't view it as quite so valuable ...


Unless ... oh, please don't tell me you're being so foolish as to suggest that we just keep operating at the normal rate and not take tax, and slowly get more and more money into circulation, knowing we have a billion if we ever have a problem? That is stupid. That is a recipe for inflation and the constant devaluation of money. That's what ruined the Novatainian economy. I completely refuse to do that, if that's what you're suggesting.

All I'm thinking is that we get more out into circulation, increase the bounties (but less than we increase the amount in circulation, obviously), and then try and keep it sitting at that appropriate amount. The spare 999950000 erb is merely there so we can go over budget a little, occasionally, and let the economy expand VERY VERY VERY SLOWLY if we get more citizens.

[Erik Mortis]

If you want slow increase, then how does increasing bounties help?

Instead of increasing the already overly large bounties, which would still be overly large even with the billion erb, why not give MORE bounties.. not larger ones.

And now.. by all means... tax.. It's needed. Required and essential.

But the simple fact is we NEED to devalue the erb. And get the government to give out reasonablly sized bounties, in relation to the value of the erb. To recognize what an erb is worth, and how much it should represent.

Right now we give out 20 erb for say.. two hours of work. meaning 10 erb is average hourly wage... but with the miniscule amount of erb we have, that doesn't even make sense. Not even remotely.

[Andreas the Wise]

I don't want slow increase. I will tolerate minisicule increase if the amount of active citizens dramatically increases. As it is, we have 25, say. On average, 4% of erb each. We pay 0.4% of an erb in bounty. Or value an hours work at 0.2% of erb. That means it takes 40 hours of work (assuming nobody else does anything and you aren't taxed) to earn what another citizen should have if everybody does the same amount of work. That sounds more than fair to me ... but my increasing the bounty is actually halving it from its present comparitive value ... meaning it might take 80 hours of work to earn 1 extra citizens worth if you aren't taxed and nobody else works. Happy?

[Erik Mortis]

Maybe. It's late and I'm tired.. I'll have to look this over tomorrow. But my goal is more erb in circulation, and a lower value per erb to promote it's use.

[Andreas the Wise]

Done and done. http://shireroth.kuroshiro.net/forum/vi ... 26#p113726

Hesam - don't worry.

[Erik Mortis]

Not much of a compromise. You tossed us a bone and did what we said not to at all, increased the size of an individual bounty. I find the bill unacceptable.

[Oroigawa Koreyasu]

Andreas, listen to people once in a while, hmm?

[Hesam Jayatar]

Andreas,

I've posted a full response to the state of the economy in the Inflation Bill (Landsraad Front Gate).

I do agree that the Minitrade needs a restricted forum.

[Erik Mortis]

Why?

[Andreas the Wise]

Andreas, listen to people once in a while, hmm?

I did. They just don't seem to realise how much of their argument I agreed with and conceded to ...

@ Erik - so Hesam and I can discuss economic matters. An economic council, so to speak. The Kaiser would definitely need access to.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

@ Erik - so Hesam and I can discuss economic matters. An economic council, so to speak. The Kaiser would definitely need access to.

Sounds good, but why on earth would it need to be closed/restricted access?

[Wil Nider]

To come up with a coherent message without people butting in all the time.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

But for two people? PM?

[Hesam Jayatar]

Wil said it perfectly.

I want a restricted forum so that Andreas and I can post issues and projects without someone responding with "BOO! HISS!!"

[Malliki]

PM perhaps?

[Erik Mortis]

or IM.

[Andreas the Wise]

Forum stores it better, and I think the Kaiser at least should be let in too, so he doesn't do something that directly contradicts our policy. We may add other people to the council as time goes by (I'm tempted to add Scott, but as admin he should be able to see anyway)

[Erik Mortis]

I don't like the implications of hiding the economy from people, of creating a secret economicly powerful elite.

[Malliki]

Forum stores it better, and I think the Kaiser at least should be let in too, so he doesn't do something that directly contradicts our policy. We may add other people to the council as time goes by (I'm tempted to add Scott, but as admin he should be able to see anyway)

You surely mean so you don't do anything that contradicts his policy?

[Hesam Jayatar]

Its not about hiding the economy, it's about being able to work on projects together, with more options than just conversation by IM or PM, without being interrupted by others before the idea is ready to be presented to everyone.

[Malliki]

Email?

[Hesam Jayatar]

Email is identical to PM and does not provide a forum format where we can review and collate multiple threads.

[Andreas the Wise]

I tried PM with Jonas re the game. Forum is so much easier.

It's not an economic elite (its not like we're getting money through it), its more like ... ok, in Australia we have the RBA, I think it's the Federal Reserve in America. The people who meet and work out monetary policy for the nation. And then the Treasurer's advisory council. Combined into one, basically. As the Kaiser is currently giving us free reign with policy, if we're persuing, say, a policy of only releasing 40 000 into circulation (for whatever reason, maybe 10 citizens just quit) we don't want him saying "Look, the crown account has 11000, lets give everyone left 500!"