Andreas

[Hesam Jayatar]

Since Scott just admitted that Yvain was his papel, I've emptied Yvain's account back into the Crown Account. I think it's about time Shireroth had an anti-papel bill of some kind. I appreciate Scott's reasons for doing this, but it did expose a vulnerability of the bank. That being that papelism can seriously mess with the voting system.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

Um, Yvain had a will in which he left the money to certain people, including Scott.

I broke no Shirerithian laws and therefore you have no right to take away my money. Please wait until I register a Scott account and transfer the remaining money in the Yvain account to it. Thank you.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Your money? You aren't even a citizen. You cannot have an account or hold erb until then atleast.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I don't have a Scott of Hyperborea account. I have a Yvain account, which is legal and is held by someone who has not formally emigrated from Shireroth. When I immigrate to Shireroth, I will start a Scott account and transfer the money in my Yvain account to it. All of this is perfectly legal, and as long as Scott doesn't try to collect new citizen bounty when rejoining under that name, it's perfectly ethical as well.

[Kaiser Ayreon]

This is becoming complicated...

[Scott of Hyperborea]

I think the simple version is "Hey, he took my money!"

[Kaiser Ayreon]

It wasn't that bit that was complicated.

[Ari Rahikkala]

I really don't see the problem. He worked for that money, doing some brilliant work in Brookshire, including some of the finest stories and worldbuilding we've seen in recent Shirithian history, some very, very pretty banknotes, eye-opening rationality training, and since these examples are just what I can remember offhand, well, there were whole bunches of other good stuff. Then the state took away his money. What else could it do? He'd committed the terrible crime of changing his name, after all. So, the state took his money. That's what states are *for*, for Gahg's sake.

[Kaiser Ayreon]

Of course it was bad taking his money, but what confuses me is how we seperate "Scott" from "Yvain" or if we really have to. BUt then again, I am tired now....

[Ari Rahikkala]

Dunno about that, but I think of them as the same person.

[Hesam Jayatar]

I looked at the anti-fraud bill and there are some issues.


1. Scott is not a citizen, he cannot hold erb or an account no matter what name he used. The fact that he did means he is in fact suspect of fraud under the definitions of the anti-fraud bill.

2. This means that Scott as "Yvain" should never have had an account in the first place, nor should he have received erb.

3. Scott as himself cannot have any erb until he is a citizen of shireroth and has an account.

4. This should be brought to the Judex.

[Scott of Hyperborea]

All right, let's try this.

A guy who used to call himself Conrad Cromien currently holds an account in Shireroth under the name "Hesam Jayatar".
A guy who used to call himself Scott Alexander currently holds an account in Shireroth under the name "Yvain Wintersong".

Neither of us are holding accounts under our former names, but neither of us are holding accounts under multiple names at once, so it doesn't matter. The only difference is that the rest of Shireroth has always known that Conrad Cromien and Hesam Jayatar were the same person, but most of Shireroth didn't know that Scott Alexander and Yvain Wintersong were the same person until today. Learning that they're the same person is interesting from a personal point of view, but it has no economic implications as Scott never had an account.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Hey I'm not the arbiter.

[Erik Mortis]

Want a ruling? I can give you one on the spot. Scott earned the money under a different login, but only with 1. He has now decided to change names, he will shortly make a new account for his new name, and we can remove the old name. The money gets moved to the new name, when the old name is removed.

There. Nice and simple. Scott earned the money. It's his.

The "Let's screw people over with laws" mentality growing in this nation is disturbing...

[Andreas the Wise]

I'm entirely in favour of all of Yvain's money being distributed as it was in the will. Scott is right - 'Scott' was never a citizen (so he broke no papal laws) and 'Scott' never had a bank account - so it's all fine. Scott is one of the most ethical chaps I know, and as he knew I knew he was Yvain (since he told me) I'm quite sure he would never have considered claiming a citizen bounty as Scott with Yvain still around.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

This is less about the legality of Scott's funds, and more about Hesam being a miserable git IMHO

[Hesam Jayatar]

I prefer "miserable nun-punching old bastard" but gladly no one asked for your humble opinion or mine.

Besides, the arbiter ruled so it's a non-issue. Still doesn't change the fact that Scott does not have an account to place the money.

[Erik Mortis]

Thank you for accepting my ruling. ...hmmm.. I pondered for a moment just now a rename feature for the bank.. but I don't see the point.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Hey, just because I disagree, doesn't mean I'm going to ignore the law.

I don't think a rename feature would be much good. Andreas and my records would be completely ruined if we did that.


Andreas, I know I have to update the excel and so forth, but I've been really busy. I'm on vacation now, so I should be able to update it this week or next.

[Erik Mortis]

The admin account can now view transaction logs, so that might help with your records.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Grand, that should actually negate the need for outside records.

Thanks!

[Andreas the Wise]

Not to mention I never had the excel file ...