Tax Bill

A library of bills passed into law by the Landsraad

Moderators: Jonas, CJ Miller

Post Reply
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Chapter XIII: Economy

I. Taxation.
1. The Ministry of Trade shall be empowered to conduct national taxation with one weeks notice to the general populous. It announce its intention to conduct taxation when one of two conditions are met:
i. The Crown Account is under 500 erb.
ii. Taxes have not been levied for a month.

2. The Kaiser may stop a tax after it is announced but before it is levied.

3. The Amount of taxation shall be 100 erb from each Duchy. Where possible, this will be taken directly from the Duke zirself. Where the Duke has less than 100 erb, this shall be taken from the richest citizen, and so on. Where the entire Duchy has less than 100 erb, all the erb they have shall be taken, and it is at the discretion of the Ministry of Trade and the Kaiser about whether the remaining sum will be taken when it becomes available.

4. Dukes are empowered to conduct taxation within their Duchy in order to recoup their loss from the National Taxation.

5. The amount and timing of taxation may be changed by the Kaiser of Act of Landsraad.
Notes: i and ii allow taxes to be either as needed, or monthly, or both. To keep everyone happy.
3. Is worded in such a way as to avoid possible fraud. That is, we take the money one way or another. If the Duchy has no money, we can cancel your debt (if no money is legit) or merely remove money from you as you add it back into your account until you pay it all off (if you're trying to fraud us). That means a Duchy can fraud to avoid tax ... only if it never wants to vote in the Landsraad again.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

That's unfair! Straylight has around 300 erbs, if they lose 100 erbs they are even more poor (sorry, Straylight)!
I understand why the Duke is taxed. But how can the Dukes tax their citizens if they don't know how much money they have?
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Jonas, we discussed per Duchy or per Person taxes, and the general consensus was that per Duchy was fairer.

But you raise a good point about other citizens ... I forget you guys can't see every account like I can ...

I guess they just have to be honest and declare the money they have? (the Judex can always audit if disputes emerge) I leave it up to the individual duke to organise. He might just say "right, there's five of us, each chip in 20," for example.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

It would be more easy, and take less time for the Dukes if they could see the accounts and amounts of money. Maybe the admins could do something to make this possible?

And I support the taxes per Duchy, I even think its the best way to create an active economy, by giving the Dukes some financial responsibility.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

To part 1: Ask Erik, might be hard ... but worth doing if it isn't.

2. Then vote AYE ;)
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

But it's a lot of money, of course.
100 erbs... it's our whole cultural financial present we got from the Kaiser. :(
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
Ari Rahikkala
Posts: 4326
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2001 12:56 pm
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Ari Rahikkala »

I don't even want to think what the bureaucracy would be like if we went for per-citizen taxation. Straylight aye (367).

Hey, I guess here's a place where I could safely say "this hurts me more than it hurts you" (-:
No-one should be without a parasol, Sirocco.
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

Yes, that's true. It hurts you more. :evil

Kildare votes Aye (633).
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
b3n|<3r|\|
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:51 pm

Re: Tax Bill

Post by b3n|<3r|\| »

Yardistan votes Aye (988).

I must say Hypotomoose must have been at work for Yardistan's vote to be that astronomically high! :surprise
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent

It takes moo to mango!
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

It was the Jacobus fund he never got when he was Steward ...
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Aurangzeb Khan
Posts: 3251
Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:22 pm
Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Aurangzeb Khan »

Elwynn Nay (715)

I would prefer a flat rate of fifty per duchy per month.
User avatar
Yvain Wintersong
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:17 pm

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Yvain Wintersong »

Brookshire AYE (784)

Between bounties and salaries, 50 erb per Duchy won't be enough. 100 erb per Duchy probably won't be enough either, but we can get creative.
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

Kaiser will veto this unless the Kaiser is empowered to tax.
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

Provided that I am empowered to veto things :p
Erik Mortis
Posts: 7238
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2003 10:37 pm
Location: County of Monty Crisco
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Erik Mortis »

You can veto this. It's not a matter of Landsraad internal procedure.
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

What do you want to tax for, your niftiness? One would assume that the Ministry of Trade is your representative taxing on your behalf ... and you can direct uses of the Crown Account as you will ... without needing to tax privately ...
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

I think we should have a duchy income tax instead. That way it would get proportional.
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

Either that or we have a kill tax of a certain percentage established by the Landsraad or Kaiser.

Say that at the beginning of Beternionsmoon it is the following setup:

Brookshire 1200
Elwynn 100
Kildare: 9400
Straylight 600
Yardistan 700

The Landsraad declared in the days leading up to Biternionsmoon that the tax will be 10% for each Duchy.

So Kildare pays 940 erbs in tax while Elwynn gets away with only 10.

This is to ensure proportionality. I don't like flat taxes. They're unfair.
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

My Kaiser, I think you and I have very different interpretations of 'Fair'.

The entire point of this money system is to horde up wealth. To make your Duchal vote powerful. People work so hard on businesses because they want to accumulate erb, and know they have to work hard to make others bear to part with theirs. Taxing proportionally entirely defeats the purpose. It means that the hard working Duchy loses significantly, and the Duchy who don't care about erb and spent most of their money without earning anything doesn't lose a cent. A proportional tax is, in my mind, entirely unfair - and a flat tax (whether on Duchy or per head) is the only fair way to do this.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

Lord Atterock,

You have made a good point. I will consult my advisors before I decide to veto something.
User avatar
Andreas the Wise
Posts: 5253
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:41 pm
Location: The Island of Melangia, Atterock, Kildare
Contact:

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Andreas the Wise »

So the Praetor may declare this Passed?
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave.
However, this account still manages:
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy

And references may be made to Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn (a Nelagan Micron of undisclosed purpose).
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

I wish to consult my advisors first and hear them if that is acceptable to the Praetor. If not, he may declare it passed.
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

Of course, Your Niftiness, I give you the time if you need it.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

Your Niftiness? Did you have enough time to consult?
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

I am sorry, Lord Praetor, but not yet.
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

No problem, Your Niftiness.
Then I can annoy Andreas a little bit longer with it. :p
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
User avatar
Kaiser Ayreon
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:03 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Kaiser Ayreon »

I will not hinder the passage of this bill.
User avatar
Jonas
Posts: 5334
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Re: Tax Bill

Post by Jonas »

Damn... ehmm... I mean passed!
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy! :tomcutterhamonfire :smashy
Post Reply

Return to “Landsraad Passed Bills”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests