I must confess...

Post by **Jonas** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:16 am

that I'm impressed by our economic system that works very well...

but this can always change

(wrong smilie! It's meant to be:

)

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:07 am

They all work well to start. This too shall pass.

Post by **Andreas the Wise** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:41 pm

I know economies tend to do best in the first month ... but this one is doing noticably better than any previous "best" I've seen ....

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:10 pm

Anything even vaguely Shirirthian will, by definition, be "better".

Post by **Jonas** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:24 pm

Someone said the most active Duchies would have the most money. Why isn't that true? The economic system is failing!

Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:28 pm

Mostly not true now, I think because the original gift system gave a ridiculous amount of money to ex-Kaisers and ex-Stewards. Any Duchy that had one or more of those folk became disproportionately rich. I hope that as time goes on, the effects of that will fade.

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:18 pm

Jacobus, this system is actually from here, it is not Shirerothian, but adopted by Shireroth. I want to make that completely clear before revisionist history has another round of "way back when, this is how it happened."

I'm glad you've been convinced though Jonas. This economy is very important to me. I'm glad the time was put into making a bank so that the theory could work. I'm glad Benkern and Andreas brought it before the Landsraad again. Most of all, I'm glad people believe in it enough that they're writing more bills to make it work even better.

Post by **Jonas** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:34 pm

I can't fully support the system until at least Dukes and Barons can see the money of citizens (for the taxes). But from all existing systems this one is the best, it was also a smart move to give the Duchies some financial responsibilities.

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:37 pm

That's more of a banking tweak than an issue of the economic system itself. I completely agree btw.

Post by **Erik Mortis** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:07 pm

One I have no intention of implementing.. nor ability to at this time.

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:24 pm

Fair enough. Perhaps Ari would be willing to have a look at it. But the point is, overall, the economy is working. I was just speaking with Benkern, and the conclusion I came across is this.

- For the economy to really work, people have to provide services which are actually needed. To achieve that, I think people will have to begin getting used to charging erb for favours etc... This cannot be legislated, it just takes a bit of greed/ambition on the part of the citizenry. In short, it means a culture shift. Something I know a lot of people are against. But quantifying work and equating it with influence is the essence of what this economy is about.

Down the line, it might also be prudent to think about whether we want to conduct international trade with foreign nations that use this economy as well. Babkha will have an automated bank soon, which means that its version of the economy will be working again. I'm not sure if other micronations would be interested in adopting it, but I think we should consider approaching some of our other friends about it.

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:34 pm

Well, since the Duchy of Babkha originated it..........

It really doesn't matter where it came from. Shireroth hath its own magik.

As far as taxation, you could force citizens to file returns,

and then fine them. the lawyerly contingent would have lots to do, and would end up with most of the erbs.

Pardon me while I wretch (iurgggahhh. ptah. Too RL!)

Of course then people would rise up, blood in the streets.........

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:37 pm

Jake, wanna start a Shirerothian civil liberties law firm with me?

Post by **Scott of Hyperborea** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:46 pm

I think I mentioned this over at INS, but isn't the Babkhan model based on the Far Reaches model where a person's vote in their parliament was based on the herds of yak that they owned?

In the end, it doesn't matter. Even if the economy started with a Babkhan idea, we're developing it in our own direction. It's like how the Chinese invented a lot of things they never really used, and then the Europeans took them and ran with them.

Of course, in either case Kaiser Hasan deserves most of the credit, and I hope that will be recognized if anyone ever gets around to giving him one of those Kaiserial nicknames.

Post by **Andreas the Wise** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:47 pm

Scott of Hyperborea wrote:
Post subject: Re: I must confess... Reply with quote
Mostly not true now, I think because the original gift system gave a ridiculous amount of money to ex-Kaisers and ex-Stewards. Any Duchy that had one or more of those folk became disproportionately rich. I hope that as time goes on, the effects of that will fade.

I'm starting to agree with this ... two Elwynn Stewards suddenly zoomed their bank account crazily ... they need to start spending. I know I've spent myself almost broke with fancy pictures and legal services ... and so I had to start earning some money and creating my own flags

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:34 am

I think I mentioned this over at INS, but isn't the Babkhan model based on the Far Reaches model where a person's vote in their parliament was based on the herds of yak that they owned?

In the end, it doesn't matter. Even if the economy started with a Babkhan idea, we're developing it in our own direction. It's like how the Chinese invented a lot of things they never really used, and then the Europeans took them and ran with them.

Of course, in either case Kaiser Hasan deserves most of the credit, and I hope that will be recognized if anyone ever gets around to giving him one of those Kaiserial nicknames.

In the end it does fucking matter. I put a load of work into this considering most people were against it.

Post by **Jonas** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:47 am

Hesam Jayatar wrote:
In the end it does fucking matter. I put a load of work into this considering most people were against it.

I'm still against it!

But now we have this system we can better make it work. I'm still affraid that one or two Duchies will decide for the rest, but I'm well aware that the Kaiser is the perfect backup.
So, yeah, the system works and is really feodal.

Aurangzeb Khan · Post by **Aurangzeb Khan** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:24 am

Down the line, it might also be prudent to think about whether we want to conduct international trade with foreign nations that use this economy as well. Babkha will have an automated bank soon, which means that its version of the economy will be working again.

Any more on that Hesam?

Kaiser Ayreon · Post by **Kaiser Ayreon** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:49 am

Perhaps start a 'common market' with Babkha and other interested States?

Post by **Jonas** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:51 am

Common markets are evil... like Babhkans...

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 11:05 am

but Fun Evil.......

Jake, wanna start a Shirerothian civil liberties law firm with me?

Shireroth Liberties In Common ? (S.L.I.C.)

Hesam & Jacobus?

Would we be barristers, solicitors, lawyers or a public-interest group?

Post by **Scott of Hyperborea** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:46 pm

In the end it does fucking matter. I put a load of work into this considering most people were against it.

*hands Hesam a small glass test tube with forty milliliters of a pale blue-green liquid. The tube is marked "THE CREDIT". A label attached reads "May decay quickly. Store in a cool, dry place and keep away from ultraviolet light, political change, and historical analysis.*

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:49 pm

Never bandy words with a motivated Hyperborean....

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:50 pm

There is one constant in this hobby regarding "The Credit", the Fnords. recognized almost everywhere but here.

b3n|<3r|\| · Post by **b3n|<3r|\|** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:50 pm

We've got the Malarbor Awards! "We're better than the FNORDs!"

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:05 pm

I got a FNORD once. It's a nice acknowledgement.

Hesam Jayatar · Post by **Hesam Jayatar** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:06 pm

Did anyone actually win those last year?

b3n|<3r|\| · Post by **b3n|<3r|\|** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:07 pm

... do you mean any of us, or anyone generally? They're still held annually if you mean the latter.

Post by **Jacobus Loki** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:20 pm

http://www.micronations.net/forum/index ... 093.0.html

Post by **Andreas the Wise** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 4:36 pm

Gralus got 3 until they decided to pull it off Liam ...