To the Arbiter: A Suggestion

[Aurangzeb Khan]

Over the course of a recent dispute concerning jurisprudence the Arbiter of the Imperial Judex made an unfortunate suggestion of us which we feel to be both vulgar and inappropriate. We therefore invite the Arbiter to take this opportunity to apologise and to revoke his erroneous request.

[Malliki]

The Arbiter is on a LOA, and I cannot answer for him.

Personally, I feel that his Excellency the Steward should apologize for, or at least recognize, his violation of the Charter and the DecreeBook, although granted it was not in any way done with malice.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

The matter is seperate to that and we shall expect an answer from the Arbiter upon his return, and we wish him many happy returns in the meantime. Nonetheless I am as of yet unconvinced that I have acted ultra vires in regards to this matter. I regret the dispute but that is all.

Further, even if the Charter doesn't specifically state that the Prætor is a member of the Landsraad, he is protected, because the Charter does also not say that he isn't protected,

However, surely the implication of Decree 296, now repealed, was that as the Charter did not explicitly regulate the matter and that the Imperial Decree carried the further implication that the praetor is not protected.

...and ruling that he is not protected would be detrimental to the ability for the Landsraad to conduct business in an efficient manner.

Since there is no definition of whether the Praetor is in fact a member of the Landsraad or not, we must use the definitions of who IS a member of the Landsraad, in conjunction with the definition of the Praetor.

It is for legislative and executive bodies to ensure that the Praetor is adequately protected under law so as to conduct the business of the legislature in an efficient manner. I believe it is the duty of the Imperial Judex to represent the laws as they stood at the time and that the laws as they stood, ieed as they stand, allowed sufficient scope for the decree to be made. If the laws and procedures of the Landsraad need to be tightened then I suggest that a bill be drafted post haste.

[Malliki]

With all due respect, the Imperial Judex has already ruled on this. The Prætor is protected against interference. Declaring that the chairman of the Landsraad is not protected against interference when the rest of the Landsraad is, is in my opinion ridiculous. The Charter does also not implicitly state that you have to be a member of the Landsraad to be protected against interference, therefore I consider being an officer of the Landsraad sufficient ground for protection. Therefore, if the Prætor is or isn't a member of the Landsraad becomes irrelevant.

[Hesam Jayatar]

The charter also says barons can spe in the Landsraad according to the internal policies of the Landsraad. Does that mean that Barons are also covered by the Landsraad simply because it doesn't specify who a member is or isn't?

[Malliki]

I would not compare barons to the chairman of the Landsraad. The LawBook specifies that the only nobles allowed in the Landsraad are the Dukes. The Charter says "Nobles of Shireroth" not "All Nobles...". The law was written like that to make it possible to change the membership of the Landsraad without having to amend the Charter.

The internal policies of the Landsraad state that only dukes may vote and only voting members (plus the Prætor and Kaiser) may speak.

[Andreas the Wise]

Note that the Praetor is a Duke ...

[Malliki]

Yes. And with this argumentation you get that Jonas, Duke of Kildare, is protected by the non-interference clause since he is a member of the Landsraad, but not Jonas the Prætor.

[Andreas the Wise]

Just checking ...

[Hesam Jayatar]

Which is my point, I think the charter needs to be more specific about the roles of the various offices and what authorities they have.

[Malliki]

I think the Charter is clear enough, but there we have a difference of opinion I suppose.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Well there really is no argument any more, I just want the Arbiter's ruling included in the charter, or at least added to the code somewhere for future reference.

[Malliki]

You do have a point there. We should have a "database" with precedence.

[Hesam Jayatar]

my thoughts exactly

[Erik Mortis]

Legalists Anger me... And you guys are starting to piss me off.

The charter is vague and loose for a reason. You are just trying to punch holes in something that has worked for years, with argument based on the fact you can't seem to grasp how things have always worked. No document can ever covered every conceivable point, so it falls to us to do the most reasonable and intelligent things, based on what we have.

And.. I apologize for nothing, as I'm not even sure what your want me to apologize for. Not that I will.

The charter is the core... the Decreebook is a strong layer to the core... and the Lawbook is the meat of the nation, with the Ministerial regulations as a skin. The Charter is just the stuff that doesn't need to ever change, a foundation. We don't need to bloat it. In fact.. I'm inclined to clean it up ever more...

[Malliki]

What Erik said, x2.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Interesting. I have yet to see a micronation which has successfully created a bloated enough constitution for it to be a real problem. Definition and clarification can't hurt. And a more complex - corrugated - foundation can't either. But as you will, you are the Erik after all.

[Malliki]

The Charter is supposed to be general, with the specifications laid down by decree and law. I could do the layers analogy that Erik loves so much, but I won't.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

"Ye see, Shireroth's like an ogre. It has layers."

We should merge the Charter, Decreebook and Lawbook into one document, then we could REALLY layer it, but group it by law instead of by... layer.

[Malliki]

Merging them in a version of the laws for clarity's sake would perhaps be helpful, but I don't believe in doing so permanently. The source for the merged document would still be three separate ones, and they would be the authoritative versions, not the merged document.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

When things are merged they don't tend to exist separately afterward... well, later they do, when the merger falls apart... that would just confuse things. There would be no authoritative versions. Well, there would be and there wouldn't be - because there would only be one version. The Law!

This isn't a serious proposal of course, because, though I do think it's what should be done, no one will agree with me on that.

[Malliki]

The merged version would just be a... merged version. The Charter, DecreeBook and LawBook would still exist afterwards.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Perhaps if you implemented this idea, yeah, but I'd do it Bill-style. One thing, reorganised into sections. Black text editable by Landsraad (= former Lawbook), Green text editable by Kaiser (= former Decreebook), Red text editable by Kaiser with approval of Praetor (= former Charter). So for example what the Charter says, Decreebooks and Lawbook says on the Landsraad would all be in one place, and their statuses would be made clear through the font colour. Just don't try to read it in Lynx.

[Malliki]

That is like begging for trouble Benkern. I'd rather have ten different documents than one color coded. Ye Gods...

[Hesam Jayatar]

Speaking of which, I'm sure they'll be along shortly to "get their way"

Erik. You were asked to apologize because you called for the resignation of the Steward. That's entirely outside of the powers of the Arbiter.

[Erik Mortis]

No. I can ask.. I just can't force it. I even point out that my powers as Arbiter can't actually act on him. If I had ordered him to, I would have done something. I just pointed out his complete disregard for law, and the position of my office to interpret it. I thus asked for his resignation to show how serious I was.

I apologize for nothing.

[Hesam Jayatar]

I know the motivation. I would likely do the same. I think the issue stemmed from the fact that first of all, Ardashir is new to the Stewardship, secondly he was honestly attempting to solve a problem. I mean, the same thing happened to me when I was Kaiser.

[Aurangzeb Khan]

As I will now be taking a short break to fight largely imaginary communists I hope that this situation will simmer down in the meantime.

[Malliki]

Good luck. When you return, an apology would be very nice. Our government officials have a duty to follow the law.

[Hesam Jayatar]

Ardashir already apologized. Should he apologize again for having his job threatened?

I don't think people know what an apology means. The primary purpose of an apology is to make amens, these days however people seem to think it's a conceding of pride due to their arrogance.

Get the priorities straight. Oh and Mike, do yourself a favour and remember that the Arbiter is appointed by the Kaiser. Not "technically", he IS appointed by the Kaiser. Which means when the Kaiser is not around the Steward is your superior. So let's call remember that the arbiter is neither the moral authority of Shireroth nor the highest office in the land. And that this place still remains an autocracy.