A Petition Concerning Jess
Moderator: Kaiser Fish XII
- Aurangzeb Khan
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- Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr
A Petition Concerning Jess
Your Imperial Majesty,
I humbly submit that as Jess has been caught attempting to commit a fraud against the Imperial Republic and since the Imperial Republic lacks at present the institutional and statutory mechanisms to adequately punish his misdeed I petition your Imperial Majesty to banish Jess from the Imperial Republic for no less than two weeks and to break him down to the rank of commoner for his hopeless "no0bishness" as an example to encourage the others.
If we cannot have adequate laws let us at least have adequate punishments.
I humbly submit that as Jess has been caught attempting to commit a fraud against the Imperial Republic and since the Imperial Republic lacks at present the institutional and statutory mechanisms to adequately punish his misdeed I petition your Imperial Majesty to banish Jess from the Imperial Republic for no less than two weeks and to break him down to the rank of commoner for his hopeless "no0bishness" as an example to encourage the others.
If we cannot have adequate laws let us at least have adequate punishments.
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I don't like the idea he lied in his application form. 
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy!

Can't you see? I'm crazy!
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Erik Mortis
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I think public ridicule has been enough. We don't need to go about banishing him. What if he wanted to try to see if people would treat him differently, and thus act differently, as another person.
Sometimes our own pasts can trap us into who we are. If given the chance to be someone else, we can be someone else, someone better behaved, and better respected.
If given the chance to be a new person, might we have treated him differently, and maybe thus have given him a chance to show a more mature side?
If this was his intent, then I say it might have been a shame that we caught him. At the very least, I doubt he intended to do harm. And thus why should be punish him when he meant no harm?
I say, if we Must punish him, let it be mild. Not two week banishment.
Sometimes our own pasts can trap us into who we are. If given the chance to be someone else, we can be someone else, someone better behaved, and better respected.
If given the chance to be a new person, might we have treated him differently, and maybe thus have given him a chance to show a more mature side?
If this was his intent, then I say it might have been a shame that we caught him. At the very least, I doubt he intended to do harm. And thus why should be punish him when he meant no harm?
I say, if we Must punish him, let it be mild. Not two week banishment.
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Erik is right. It looks like the french revolution... maybe I'm next to get banished 
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy!

Can't you see? I'm crazy!
- b3n|<3r|\|
- Posts: 1536
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
It's just Jess. If he does it again then perma-ban or whatever the Osmanis are calling for at the gates, but no punishment is necessary in this case.
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
- Aurangzeb Khan
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I hope this doesn't mean Jess is being a naughty boy in Vanderveer as well.hypatias mom wrote:I am afraid we are unable to add you to the members list of Shireroth.
" First investigation showed that he had the same email addrees as Vilhelm Tjaarda, Prince of Nederlanden (Vanderveer), whose English is not bad at all.
Second investigation showed that the IP address of Mr van Frysk are VERY VERY similar to Jess's, from an ISP in Iowa, United States.
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Erik Mortis
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
If he is, Not our problem?
- hypatias mom
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Ardashir--It may be that the recent falsified document may not be the only false assertion he has made. I have received information that would put his stated age into question, by 14 years!! This has not yet been verified, but I am now going to attempt to do so. According to internet rules, no one under 14 may join. If he was underage when applying, we have a problem.
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Ahum. This sounds like breaking privacy rules.hypatias mom wrote:Ardashir--It may be that the recent falsified document may not be the only false assertion he has made. I have received information that would put his stated age into question, by 14 years!! This has not yet been verified, but I am now going to attempt to do so. According to internet rules, no one under 14 may join. If he was underage when applying, we have a problem.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy!

Can't you see? I'm crazy!
- Aurangzeb Khan
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
(Posted under the name "Johannes Adelistmeiner")
Your Name: Jess
Your Email address: jasure123 (at) hotmail (dot) com
Your Age:?
Any other Micronational citizenships: Amokolia, Shireroth
http://prinsvlaanderen.proboards53.com/ ... thread=198
(Still posting as "Johannes Adelistmeiner")
i wish to revoke my citizenship for a few reasons... :'( i might return sometime though!
-For the last time
Johannes von Braun
http://prinsvlaanderen.proboards53.com/ ... thread=204
The Khan of Vijayanagara wrote:I hope this doesn't mean Jess is being a naughty boy in Vanderveer as well.hypatias mom wrote:I am afraid we are unable to add you to the members list of Shireroth.
" First investigation showed that he had the same email addrees as Vilhelm Tjaarda, Prince of Nederlanden (Vanderveer), whose English is not bad at all.
Second investigation showed that the IP address of Mr van Frysk are VERY VERY similar to Jess's, from an ISP in Iowa, United States.
Name: Vilhelm Tjaarda
DOB: 08/22/80
Interest in Vanderveer (i.e. anything out of the ordinary, starting a business, anything): Heraldry, Renaissance Art - Rembrandt
Residency of Choice: Het Verenigd
Other Micronational Citizenships: Mulgaria
http://prinsvlaanderen.proboards53.com/ ... thread=202
Shireroth, Vanderveer, Gralus, Mulgaria... Tri-Cit violated? Hmm.Jess wrote:The Basics:
Name: Jess Heimer
Account: Jess
Residence: Isle of Naudia'Diva, Naudia'Diva, Holy Lands of Shireroth, Yardistan, Shireroth
Position: Count of Naudia'Diva, Baron of HLoS, Ambassador to Babkha (? Havent been there for a while) Court Jester
Nobility: ^ ^
Citizenship: Gralus, Vanderveer, Shireroth
Contact: jasure123 (msn, aol, gmail) jessten95 (yahoo)
Awards: Goldon Nixon
Photo:![]()
Webpage: http://www.myspace.com/amokolia
-------------------------
- Aurangzeb Khan
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Here you go Carol. Proof that Jess is 14.
Hat tip to Jeremy of all people

Hat tip to Jeremy of all people

Your Name: Janos Andrasne
Your Country of origin: USA
Your Age: 14
Your chosen region of resident: Anterricht
Any previous micronational experience: Undisclosable
Notes: n00b Here!
The oath: I swear loyalty to the Empire of Anterreich-Launderschnell, His Royal and Imperial Highness Emperor Charles and all his heirs forsaking all hostility to this nation. Amen!
http://anterreich.proboards49.com/index ... &thread=58
(János Andrásné posted a thread headed Resignation of Citizenship, circa March 2008)
János (jess from amokolia)
http://anterreich.proboards49.com/index ... &thread=59
Last edited by Aurangzeb Khan on Mon Jul 14, 2008 1:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
LawBook:
"C: Non-Malicious Acts
1. Should anyone break a law, but do so either as part of a non-malicioct or for reasons that are obviously good ones and beneficial to the nation, they will not be considered guilty and will not be subject to the normal punishment.
2. Whether a certain incident was part of a non-malicious act or beneficial to the nation will be under the discretion of whatever judiciary bodies exist at the time the incident took place, as well as the Kaiser."
"C: Non-Malicious Acts
1. Should anyone break a law, but do so either as part of a non-malicioct or for reasons that are obviously good ones and beneficial to the nation, they will not be considered guilty and will not be subject to the normal punishment.
2. Whether a certain incident was part of a non-malicious act or beneficial to the nation will be under the discretion of whatever judiciary bodies exist at the time the incident took place, as well as the Kaiser."
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
- Aurangzeb Khan
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I call upon the Kaiser to recognise this deception as being essentially malicious and in no way beneficial to the Imperial Republic otherwise we are all entitled to violate Tri-Cit if we feel that our very presence benefits the forums PPD.
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Erik Mortis
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Shireroth has no rules regarding age to join. I do not encourage such rules...hypatias mom wrote:Ardashir--It may be that the recent falsified document may not be the only false assertion he has made. I have received information that would put his stated age into question, by 14 years!! This has not yet been verified, but I am now going to attempt to do so. According to internet rules, no one under 14 may join. If he was underage when applying, we have a problem.
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Erik Mortis
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Okey. Tri-cit is a valid violation, and I don't oppose it's punishment...
- Aurangzeb Khan
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Returning to Erik's previous points. I think that this evidence shows that for Jess lying about his circumstances is a routine part of his behaviour and as such this attempt to come back as Gerhard van Frysk, a 34 year old from Holland, is not an attempt to turn over a new leaf but rather to evade responsibility for his actions. Moreover it is an attempt on Jess' part to have his cake and eat it. This citizenship application came as he claimed to be entering a leave of absence out of protest at the failure of Kaiser Loki II to secure the throne. Attempting to put himself into Straylight under a new name whilst making a great show of storming off is not an attempt to make a fresh start but an attempt to deceive.
- hypatias mom
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
In addiition, jess joined fraudulently in the first place, by claiming to be 26, not 14. And if he also hid various other memberships to get his list down to two other than Shireroth, he also violated the Tri-cit rule, and was also ineligible. This, in addition to all the other circumstances, seem to call for his permanent banishment. He should not be allowed to come back as a member when his every action shows him to be duplicitous in his dealings with us.
-
Erik Mortis
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I'm opposed to permanent..
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I would suggest that this be brought before the Imperial Judex, instead of the Kaiser's Court. We want something to do.
At least I do. 
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
- Krasniy Yastreb
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I second Mr. Fors' suggestion.
Sir Krasniy Yastreb Ly'Piscator, KcOMI
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Duke and Arx-Piscator of Brookshire
+ Baron of Vorpmadal
+ Count of Lunaris
+ Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent
+ MoMA SDI Director
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Duke and Arx-Piscator of Brookshire
+ Baron of Vorpmadal
+ Count of Lunaris
+ Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent
+ MoMA SDI Director
- hypatias mom
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I think that is totally appropriate, and Jess will have to answer in court for his behavior. If all (or even most) of these charges are verified, what type of punishnment do you think is in order?
- b3n|<3r|\|
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
This is ridiculous. Jess is and always has been a noob. All he needs is a slap on the wrist. He will change for the better, but we will not be here to see that if we force him away.
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
- Aurangzeb Khan
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
He will never change if he is always allowed to make the same old evasions. He must be punished. Only then will he ever be likely to learn from his past mistakes. If he needs to go away from here in order to reflect, so be it.
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I think you forget that the tri-cit rule was ment to bind citizens to Shireroth and make them more active, I don't think Jess' activity suffers under his citizenships.
And it's an outrage that you are using macronational information of other micronationalists, if this happens again then I leave this nation. Noboddy needs to know what I do and what age I am in real life.
This topic is the proof that some people here just want Jess gone, first because his double account. Then for his age. This looks like the inquisition.
And it's an outrage that you are using macronational information of other micronationalists, if this happens again then I leave this nation. Noboddy needs to know what I do and what age I am in real life.
This topic is the proof that some people here just want Jess gone, first because his double account. Then for his age. This looks like the inquisition.
From a distance I'm concerned about the rampant lawyerism manifesting itself in Shireroth currently. A simple Kaiserial slap on the wrist or censure by the community should suffice. - Jacobus Loki
Can't you see? I'm crazy!

Can't you see? I'm crazy!
- Oroigawa Koreyasu
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Age, tri-cit, fraud, whatever. Jess has made a very real contribution to Shireroth. Let him be. Don't take it too far or you'll discourage the poor kid.
Oroigawa Koreyasu
Count of McCallavre, Straylight
Count of Lesser Attera, Kildare
Count of Asantelian, Brookshire
Chairman, Senate of the Lakes, Hurmu
Count of McCallavre, Straylight
Count of Lesser Attera, Kildare
Count of Asantelian, Brookshire
Chairman, Senate of the Lakes, Hurmu
- b3n|<3r|\|
- Posts: 1536
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:51 pm
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
If he does it again, ban him, forever if you must. But he hasn't even had a chance yet.
Vilhelm von Benkern - The Dolphin-...Count
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
:: Formerly just "benkern"
:: Rook Sentry of the Order of the Vorpal Blade
:: Count of Mar Sara IIRC
:: Former Baron of Absentia AFAIK, before that Baron of Vorpmadal TBH; also Former Duke of Yardistan IMHO
:: Dux Emeritus of the Order of Mischievous Intent
It takes moo to mango!
- Aurangzeb Khan
- Posts: 3251
- Joined: Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:22 pm
- Location: The Citadel, Ardashirshahr
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
That is for the Kaiser to determine.
- hypatias mom
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Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
Benkern--
I'm not sanguine about your attitude. He has shown a pattern of deceit. If it is not dealt with, this will continue, perhaps becoming a guiding principle in his RL behavior. We have rarely seen anyone willingly lie on so many applications and continue to do so for more than a year. This seems like a serious, ongoing problem which will perpetuate itself if not stopped.
Jonas--
You seem to be missing the point here. It's not just that Jess has violated the Tri-cit rule. His various applications show a blatant disregard for the truth. Just because he has been active does not make his presence here lawful or desired.
Corey--
The "poor kid" has engaged in deceit from day one with us. Adult patterns are often reinforced if not stopped when discovered.
I'm not sanguine about your attitude. He has shown a pattern of deceit. If it is not dealt with, this will continue, perhaps becoming a guiding principle in his RL behavior. We have rarely seen anyone willingly lie on so many applications and continue to do so for more than a year. This seems like a serious, ongoing problem which will perpetuate itself if not stopped.
Jonas--
You seem to be missing the point here. It's not just that Jess has violated the Tri-cit rule. His various applications show a blatant disregard for the truth. Just because he has been active does not make his presence here lawful or desired.
Corey--
The "poor kid" has engaged in deceit from day one with us. Adult patterns are often reinforced if not stopped when discovered.
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
The law is there for a reason, Benkern.
The only punishment that can be handed out is for violation of the Tri-Cit rule, since no law specifically outlaws papelism. I'm not aware of any precendence, but a sentence could theoretically be anything from a slap on the wrist to banishment for a set amount of time. Permanent exile may only be ordered by the Kaiser.
The only punishment that can be handed out is for violation of the Tri-Cit rule, since no law specifically outlaws papelism. I'm not aware of any precendence, but a sentence could theoretically be anything from a slap on the wrist to banishment for a set amount of time. Permanent exile may only be ordered by the Kaiser.
His Grace the Lord Brookshire, LK GMNS
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
Arbiter, Imperial Judex
Duke of Brookshire, Baron of Lakhesis
Knight of the Dragon
Fan of SOAD
- Krasniy Yastreb
- Posts: 617
- Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:09 am
- Location: Smotretka, Lunaris
Re: A Petition Concerning Jess
I've seen micronations destroyed by citizens who run amok unchallenged because their countrymen are too timid to bring them to account. The granting of graces and second chances sap legitimacy from the law. If Jess is truly a benevolent force in Shireroth, the Judex would find such and rule appropriately. To demand some kind of clemency before the process of trial has even begun is antithetical to the concept of institutional justice as a whole.
Again I say, let it go to the Judex.
Again I say, let it go to the Judex.
Sir Krasniy Yastreb Ly'Piscator, KcOMI
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Duke and Arx-Piscator of Brookshire
+ Baron of Vorpmadal
+ Count of Lunaris
+ Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent
+ MoMA SDI Director
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Duke and Arx-Piscator of Brookshire
+ Baron of Vorpmadal
+ Count of Lunaris
+ Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent
+ MoMA SDI Director
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