Resolution: Cease all current MCS claims 5-18-2008

[Jacobus Loki]

Can we table this until after the war? How about a test resolution for Malarbor Awareness Day or something?

[Jonas]

Can we table this until after the war? How about a test resolution for Malarbor Awareness Day or something?

Of course I can do that. Maybe we get some land if I wait with approving

[Erik Mortis]

I'm opposed to this being tabled.

[Jonas]

Why don't we use a vassal state? For example: the Imperial Republic of Little Shireroth.
Ow forget that...

[Jacobus Loki]

The problem is that the new voting system doesn't work. We are setting ourselves up to be in a situation where the Kaiser has to decree everything just to move the country forward.

Besides, we have new goodies to absorb, Jess' donation & the like.

And a war to win!

[Erik Mortis]

Then use the old system, which is technically still the legal system, for this vote and other till we get the economic one passed properly.

[Andreas the Wise]

The problem is that the new voting system doesn't work. We are setting ourselves up to be in a situation where the Kaiser has to decree everything just to move the country forward.

Besides, we have new goodies to absorb, Jess' donation & the like.

And a war to win!

The new system should work fine ... it's just where Barons fit in ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Alright. Here's how everything is going to work.

1. There are two issues before the Landsraad right now. The MCS issue and the Economy. Both should be voted on under the old system. Andreas, could you please take the Economic decree and turn it into a Landsraad act so that it can be voted on. And take out the bit about Barons voting.

1. While I can't order this, I would like the Praetor to keep a list of Resolutions which are put before the landsraad. They'll be dealt with "first come first serve" and as each is voted on and completed, the next will be addressed. For example:

1. MCS Vote
2. Economic Landsraad Vote
3. Knightly Orders

2. If the economy resolution passes, Barons will make a second bank account registered to Shirekeep. If they ever feel the need to not have their erb included in a Landsraad vote, they will transfer their erb into their Shirekeep accounts. Name these shirekeep accounts according to your Barony.

3. When another piece of legislation comes before the Landsraad it is the responsibility of Barons who want to abstain or support a vote to move their erb back into their normal account.

That seems to be the simplest and most effective solution to our current deadlock.

[Erik Mortis]

And barons will have to accept that when multiple things are on the floor at the same time, they might end up removing their support for multiple things...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

No, thats why we have the first come, first serve thing. We deal with one vote at a time. If Barons forget to move their erb, thats their issue.

[Andreas the Wise]

Good idea Hasan, that's actually going to be quite effective ... do you want that Baron bit in the Landsraad act? (I think it says somewhere else no double accounts ...)

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Thanks Andreas. You can remove the bit about the barons from the Landsraad act. But if you could also review the document, see if it says no double accounts anywhere, and alter it appropriately. We might be able to get this thing working yet. Thanks again for the work!

[Jacobus Loki]

I'm always willing to compromise---

What about freezing all MCS claims as of May 28th, excluding any pending claims, and any arising from the war and Jess' Donation.

That I can cheer on.

But we fough hard, and deserve some little goodies, maybe oh, in exchange for not claiming bits of Riponia. Or something like that.

[Erik Mortis]

What?! You just shot the Landsraad in the foot. You can't do 1 bill at a time. It works sometimes when there isn't much on the table.. but you basically set us to only be able to handle 1 bill a week at best. This idea gets worse the more we talk about it. I thought it was great.. but it's getting.. messed up...

I but this forth as is.. All claims, immediately.

[Andreas the Wise]

In no way must it be 1 week per act. 2 days should be more than sufficient time. Furthermore, you can discuss as many bills as you like ... it's just VOTING that must be done one at a time. Besides, to be fair, there should be time for acts to be debated within a Duchy by the Barons if it is a controversial one anyway ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

yeah, lets not go with the "what if's" scenarios otherwise anything that is proposed will just seem terrible. If worse comes to worse and votes are miscounted, then its simply a matter of the Dukes posting the number of erbs their vote has at that time in the post. This way we can always go back and ensure everything is correct.

[Jacobus Loki]

Monty in MCS tells me that Redoubt Island is ours.

His reasoning-

We fought for it-

Jeremy is not in MCS-

Matbaa has renounced it-

I'm going to go get it unless somebody slaps me really hard.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

To the victor go the spoils, We should hold a Triumph for Ardashir, Jacobus and Erik for their victory.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I'm still shooting until Monty officially blows the final whistle. Joe's fleet was Nova English and technically only Bosworth are out, so there we go.

[Jacobus Loki]

I'm not a Baron. Just as well.

The MCS is acting on the current application. Can we stall a little while longer?

P.S.-
Interland is attacking Shrewsbury....

[Erik Mortis]

I'm not going with What If's.. I'm going with Historical trends, things we have dealt with in the past. Based on past experience, this will stall and complicate the running of the Landsraad. Traditionally voting lasted 4 days to let people get online and vote. I actually forget what it is under the current Procedures of the Landsraad.

[Jacobus Loki]

No offense to His Niftiness, but in the days olden days of Mors V (sob, blows nose), Dukes showed up, talked, voted, Jonas did his thing, things moved on.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Is Shireroth going to fall apart completely if we at least try it with one vote? I mean, its JUST one vote. We've already gone this far, it seems as though its worth it to at least give it a test run.

[Jacobus Loki]

Shireoth will not "fall apart completely". Thats why we have the Kaiser!

[Erik Mortis]

That is true.

It's not just one vote. What my issue is at this point is the 1 vote at a time in sequence plan. That doesn't allow multiple bills to be voted on at the same time. Summer 2005(?). There was something like 15 bills in the Landsraad in one week... It was horrible! And if we did one at a time.. it would have taken us weeks just do deal with those, ignoring the fact that more kept coming in... It was a chaotic time... and it lost us a lot of good people to burn out.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Alright well I figure if things go odd like that, there is still another option:

If we are dealing with many bills at one time and the erb counts get confusing we can assume a few things.

Firstly, if there is so much opposition to a bill that many barons are voting against their duke, that bill will likely be contested anyways.

Secondly, when voting in these circumstances, everyones total vote counts are included with each Dukes votes. So if it comes down to that, we simply audit the vote at a later, less hectic time.

To audit the vote, someone would have to approach the arbiter, who could appoint "auditors" to recount the votes and ensure that everything went correctly. And finally I figure, if there is an audit, and everything turns out to be done correctly, that the Arbiter be allowed to charge a fee for the trouble of having a recount.

[Erik Mortis]

Would you like some bureaucracy with your tea m'Lord?

[Jacobus Loki]

I'm just suggesting a comprimise, it hasn't been voted on yet, and what are foreigners doing in the Landsraad?

What am I doing in the Landsraad?

[Erik Mortis]

I fixed the first part. And as for the latter.. you are the Steward?

[Jacobus Loki]

True, but I'm not a Duke, and I get the feeling sometimes that I talk too much..........