Only Dukes can vote.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

How? I haven't seen us vote on more than one piece at any given time.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Well I haven't been here long but in the time I've been here I've noticed that the Landsraad tends to move in jerks - nothing for 2 months, 4 bills in a week, nothing, one bill one week then 2 the next, nothing for a few weeks and so on. So we should let the Landsraad pass as many as we can at the times where it's actually doing stuff.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Alright if that's the case, I still don't see this as an issue for the entire government. One of the reasons I didn't add anything about baron voting in the decree was that its supposed to be the prerogative of the subdivisions to work this out themselves. If in the odd chance that a Duke consistently votes in opposition to his/her Baron's, then thats a matter for the Duchy. If the Barons don't like it, there are a number of solutions:

1. Temporarily transfer your votes somewhere else in protest

2. Negotiate with your Duke to vote the way the majority would like.

3. Change Duchies if absolutely needed

4. Get enough erb to be able to sway a vote.

The key of this system is that its supposed to spark political dealings. I mean, If I weren't Kaiser, I currently hold a majority vote in Froyalan. If I didn't like the way The Duke was voting, I'd approach him, if he didn't respond, I would transfer my account balance. And if there were still troubles, I could threaten to move to a different Duchy. The idea of the Baron's voice is that they hold the potential to have a great deal of sway depending on their account balances. But not that Baron's are equal to Dukes. It's just potential for influence.

[Erik Mortis]

So... we've turned into a Cooperate Democracy of sorts?

[Jacobus Loki]

a Cooperate Democracy

(shudder)

[Erik Mortis]

Corporate Republic of Yardistan. Check the histories..

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Well Corporate Democratic Monarchy.

[Jacobus Loki]

Check the histories..

It's true.

[Erik Mortis]

It was some fun.. and confusing as hell for others... This was during the time in Tymaria when Yardistan took over all of Shireroth and Shireroth became Yardistan.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

So are we good with the system now? We need someone to present the economy to the Landsraad, minus the Baron part.

[Erik Mortis]

umm.. I guess. did we actually change anything?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

yes, we took out the bit about Barons either supporting or opposing the vote. And we changed it from a decree to an act of the Landsraad.

[Erik Mortis]

Are we making the whole thing an act of the landsraad? Or just the voting bit? Prefer both parts. One part ends up in the lawbook and the other into the Precedures of the Landsraad. (I'm obsessed with bookkeeping at the moment... I know)

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I'd say the whole thing should be an act of Landsraad. However, since you know exactly how you want this to go through, why don't you re-edit the decree into an act format, and divide the parts in the act into two sections, one for each location. that way the entire thing passes and it's easy to collate the parts to where ever it belongs.

[Erik Mortis]

umm. Okey. I can't do it today, last final then work all day. But... soon. unless someone else gets to it. I'll proly add it as it's own Chapter to the lawbook.

And with my revised books done, we could proly get those in place. The new decreebook would need to be decreed into place and the lawbook could be either decreed or made an act of the landsraad. either would work.

[Ari Rahikkala]

How about this: Instead of optionally supporting their Duke's votes, Barons simply vote yea or nay. If their vote agrees with their Duke's vote, it gets counted. As far as I can tell, these systems are functionally equivalent:

- Duke votes Yea, Baron Yea == Baron supports vote
- Duke votes Yea, Baron Nay == Baron doesn't support vote
- Duke votes Nay, Baron Yea == Baron doesn't support vote
- Duke votes Nay, Baron Nay == Baron supports vote

... the difference here being that the change would make votes look neater, and fix the ambiguity in what to do if a Duke announces zir vote, a Baron reacts to it, and the Duke changes zir vote. The silliness in that Barons can only affect the vote at all if their Duke voted one way or another remains, though. Maybe just count a Baron's vote directly if the Duke above zir abstained or didn't vote?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Andreas' proposal was that barons vote aye or nay. Thats not the problem, the problem is that if we used that system, we'd have to detract Baron's votes by hand each time one of them voted nay. Something that is a pain at best. If we could automate that, then the problem would be solved though.

[Andreas the Wise]

Of course, with the number of barons we have actively objecting within the landsraad, it wouldn't be many .... alternatively, just make us subtract it ourselves ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I'd rather have the system set up for maximum efficiency. So here's my latest revised proposal:

- We remove the bit about Barons voting aye or nay until such a time as it can be automated.

That should be written right into the resolution so that we don't have to mess about with more laws and legislation to get things going if someone does decide to automate the barons vote.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I agree with the Kaiser's last proposal - I think the Barons should be able to use their money properly (so they have complete control over it for the purposes of voting) but it's not very practical without automation.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Speaking of which, aside from the time constraints. How difficult would it be to edit the bank for the purposes of Baron's votes? Somehow I think Ari already worked some of this out, but I'd like to know.

[Erik Mortis]

I have no system in the bank in place to distinguish a baron from a duke from anyone else. ie. I don't see a way to do it.

[Andreas the Wise]

The shirekeep swap should work fine ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Yes and its written into the act as well. If anyone finds the whole thing to complex, I'd be more than happy to make a diagram of what it all means. I'll even put Voltron and Ponies in it.

[Erik Mortis]

No ponies...

[Jacobus Loki]

No Ponies!

[Erik Mortis]

But I would accept Wild Stallions...

[hypatias mom]

Awesome!! Party on, dudes!!

[Erik Mortis]

Yay! someone got it!

[Jacobus Loki]

OK, so how far are you from San Dimas?