Only Dukes can vote.

[Erik Mortis]

Just a reminder.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

I'm trying but I have no posting rights. :P

[Erik Mortis]

Oh.. yes.. I was never informed.. I'll see to it.

[Erik Mortis]

Nevermind. Ari did it.

[Andreas the Wise]

Yes, but Barons can ...
Oh, I can't be bothered repeating it, read my Landsraad post when it gets approved. It's the whole basis of the new economic system that the other nobles have some say in what happens ....

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Barons cannot vote in the Landsraad, but their votes are counted toward that of their Duke.

[Andreas the Wise]

And our votes can be uncounted also, yes?

[Jess]

That is my question, how can we not support our dukes? (i.e. take away that Erb)

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Barons can move to another Duchy if they wish their votes to not be counted. Or make arrangements with a member of another duchy to hold their erb while the vote is being counted. But this would depend on the good will of both parties.

[Andreas the Wise]

I was quite sure when I edited the decree that Barons could abstain from their Duke's vote. Article 7:

Should the subjects within a Duchy wish to boost the votes of their Duke or Baron, they may state in the Landsraad that they wish their erb to be counted toward the vote of their Duke. This decision is merely a "Support" or "Not support", and is either added to the Duke's current vote, or ignored for this voting issue.

Jonas can choose Aye or Nay, and I can choose whether to support his vote or Abstain from supporting. True, I probably should have put "Not Support", but Abstain has basically the same meaning ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Right never mind, I forgot about the re-edit.

[Ari Rahikkala]

So Barons can speak in the Landsraad... or could they already speak in the Landsraad anyway...?

* goes to create a group for them *

[Andreas the Wise]

Oh, we could always speak ...

btw, on the permissions thing .. Hasan, where is that military forum you said I should be able to see?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Your access to the Command Centre decked out in 1960's Pop Art should be available.

[Erik Mortis]

Not to be a problem.. but I found a problem with the voting side of the economic system.. but I think people will hurt me if I bring it up....Cause it's rather nit-picky.. but kinda important...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Go ahead, I mean I can always edit the decree again. Also, I sort of prefer that Barons transfer their money out because by simply not supporting the vote, it means someone has to deduct all the erbs manually, which is a pain in the ass.

[Erik Mortis]

Yeah.... that's the problem.. You can't degree the fix... Cause... you violated the charter. The Kaiser cannot impose on the Landsraad its internal functioning, this means voting. The whole system of voting in place is illegal. I don't know why I didn't notice this when it was decreed. (I saw it before and after.. but not during.. bugger) So... Yeah.. Don't shoot me.

We are legally still under the 1 duke 1 vote system.

And even then.. I'm inclined to remove the stuff about vote moving for barons once seeing it in action. It's a bookkeeping nightmare...And the moving of funds is also problematic as I see it. While I like the system.. we need to find a way to implement it better.

[Jess]

Damn, so we don't get our say anymore?

REVOLUTION!

This time for Democracy!

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Ok, so simple solution:

1. We take out the bit about barons being able to support or withdraw their support. Instead, if Barons really want to vote against their Duke, they'll have to transfer their erb to someone else temporarily. If any problems come from that, it can be settled in the courts.

2. I "undecree" hat decree, and we take the basis of it, with the change to the baron issue and make it into a Landsraad act. Then it gets voted on in the old system and either passes or fails.

Thats it, no big deal.

[Jess]

No!

Malarbor-doodle went to town,
riding on a mooooose...etc. etc.

[Erik Mortis]

And I can add it to my expanded Lawbook I'm working on.. ...crap... I have to many projects again... bank, lawbook, girl, webcomic, powerpoints for a teacher...work. oh yeah. and that finaly thursday... apartment hunting.. feeling stressed....... *explodes*

...So I can then just add it to the lawbook I'm working on.

Yeah, we might just wanna think about the dukes voting and it be based on their erb.. if barons move money that's their problem, and not written into the system. Then later work out how to get the barons legally involved. (the Council of Barons idea actually appealed to me...)

[Andreas the Wise]

Well, the thing with the economy is the motivation is the voting power. If only the Dukes have any easy control over their vote, it reduces the appeal of the economy to 5 people. At least with Barons that means the majority of the population have a say without having to arrange swapovers ...


But even if we do drop that bit, make sure we can still talk without needing Mod approval ...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Well there's only really two options as I see it. Somehow adding a feature to the bank which would allow Barons to include or exclude their erb from the bank summary, or simply allow Barons to make alliances with other Barons to hold their erb during a specific vote. I mean, the influence is still there, its just in the direct hands of the barons. And honestly, if the Baron's can't be bothered to make an account transfer, why would they think that Erik or I would be interested in tallying the sum of the votes minus the erb of some of the Barons?

[Erik Mortis]

Btw.. by moving their money elsewhere they are giving more powers to dukes other than their own.

As it stands I could not implement that into the bank. And.. What about when there are multiple votes going at once?

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Then they will have to be addressed chronologically.

[Erik Mortis]

Yes.. but moving money around will not be feasible for multiple votes all going at once, and thus being tallied at once.

[b3n|<3r|\|]

Sounds to me like a full integration of the Landsraad into the bank is the only way to make that whole thing work. And I don't think that's feasible.

[Erik Mortis]

It is.. but not by me...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

I meant that only one issue can be voted on at a time. So if there are three pieces of legislation, only one can be voted on at a given time. Which makes sense since no real life legislative body deals with more than one act at a give time.

[Erik Mortis]

This isn't real life... doing that was put a HUGE bottle neck in the system.