New issue: 1 book to rule them all.

[Erik Mortis]

Currently we have 2 different books for 2 different sets of law. Something I admit that I have encouraged to this point. Bill attempted to merge them into a single document, but distinguished the decree law with a green font, which I thought was just plain silly and removed as Kaiser at some point.

But the fact remains, we have to sets of Imperial law one the Kaiser alone can edit and one editable by the Kaiser and the Landsraad. (above all is the Charter)

Now, this is all well and good I suppose. But it gets confusing when the law needs to be changed and half can be done by the Landsraad but the other half is done by the Kaiser.. not very efficient.. or effective. Also confusing when we need to distinguish which book we are talking about.

FURTHER. The Steward can't change decrees set down by Kaisers.

So. Landsraad, Steward and the Kaiser can edit the Lawbook.
Kaiser and Steward can edit the Decreebook
Kaiser can edit decrees by Kaisers and stewards, but Steward can only make new decrees or edit decrees by stewards.

Ignoring the Steward issue for now. Since I think that would be a Charter revision issue, which I'll deal with another day, the Decreebook vs Lawbook issue is a problem I've long wanted to resolve.

Till now I have felt it was unsolvable because the only way to resolve it in a way that made sense to me was to make the decreebook and the lawbook 1 book. Which would make all the law in the Decreebook equal to the Lawbook laws. Meaning the Landsraad could edit it.

No problem you might say, but this in a way weakens the Kaiser. Meaning that only individual orders would be above the Landsraad law. So, the Kaiser could decree a law and then the landsraad could immediately remove it from the lawbook.

Then I realized. The Kaiser has veto power! Why I missed this for so long. I do not know.

So. I propose that with our support the Kaiser order that all law in the Decreebook be put into the Lawbook and that the decreebook be abolished. Further, that the Landsraad would retain access to the law in the Lawbook, as would the Kaiser and the Steward.

Once my semester is over in 3-4 weeks I would volunteer to make the changes and present them to the Landsraad and Kaiser for the Kaiser to decree the new book. I would make a page on the wiki where I would put it and make the changes. The document would be huge!

Problem I just noticed. By dropping the law in the decreebook down a peg, all the laws in there that limit the kaiser in someway would stop actually any power, and would turn into mere suggestions. Unless the Charter was changed to make the Kaiser answerable to the law in the Lawbook. Once again, weakening the Kaiser, or strengthening the Landsraad, depending on how you look at it. And once again, the Veto of the Kaiser would be the Kaiser's defense from Landsraad usurpation of power.

So, we would need 1 charter revision to subject the Kaiser to the Lawbook, 1 decree to merge the books, and a shit-load of work done by me to merge the two books coherently.


ps: Yes. I have changed my political stance in the last number of years.

[Jacobus Loki]

[Gman Russell]

Wait, so you want to weaken the kaiser even further? I dont know about that...

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Neither do I.

What about assigning the duty of the Kaiser to separate issues than that of the Landsraad? For example, the Kaiser could only decree laws related to Charter Law, Administrative Law (ie meta-law) where as the Landsraad would be responsible for civil law and national policy? It would be difficult to draw a line as to where one ends and another begins, but I think it would establish roles for each branch of government.

[Jonas]

I prefer the current situation. If it isn't broken, you mustn't fix it.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

That works for me as well.

[Erik Mortis]

Ah.. but it is broke. It's been broke for a long time. We have two different sets of law. Much of which covers the same thing, but at different level. But not editable easily.

I'm not really weakening the Kaiser. As I'm taking all the law that is currently set for only him to Edit. And making it so the Landsraad can work on it. The Kaiser will still be above the Landsraad. Will still have Veto..etc. I'm just cleaning up the system so it makes more sense.

As it stands Kaisers rarely decree things straight into law anymore. Most of the time it's individual acts, and no long lasting law. The recent economy stuff is an exception, and it's not even in the Decreebook yet. And as it stands the Landsraad cannot adjust the economy if it needs to.

I'm saying that we don't need to put law were no one can get to it but the Kaiser if we don't need to. The Charter is kinda what that is for.

I guess if nothing else, I'm asking we take everything that is in the decreebook right now and put it in the lawbook, and edit the charter so that the Kaiser must obey the lawbook. Though there remains no one who can technically enforce those laws on the kaiser. As Arbiter I can say he violated a law, and if he makes a decree that violates the Charter directly, I can get the landsraad together and get that decree or order revoked, but that's a HARD process taking 100% of the Landsraad.

[Erik Mortis]

Wait, so you want to weaken the kaiser even further? I dont know about that...

Your statement implies that the Kaiser is weak. The Kaiser is the supreme authority of the land, answerable only to the Charter and the Gods. And he has power over the Charter.

I can't believe I'm on this side of this argument...

[Erik Mortis]

So I abandoned my idea of merging the two books completely. But I have started merging stuff in the decreebook into the lawbook that doesn't need to be above the Landsraad.

When complete I will present it to the Kaiser and the Landsraad for approval. I am not removing any laws, just moving them. This will require the Kaiser to decree into place all at once to actually work.

http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Decreebook_new
http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Lawbook_new

my working drafts. I noticed that what will be left will be more like legal clarifications of the charter more than law. Legally binding..yes. but not things that need to change very often. I would further promote future kaisers modifing the lawbook when they want to change everyday laws.

I also noticed a lot of left over junk. Hell.. some of the stuff in the Decreebook right now is in violation of the Charter just being in there. (my fault...) When this is done I will proly stat promoting the cleaning of the lawbook.

Does this have any support?

[hypatias mom]

It sounds like this spring cleaning is years overdue. Go for it. I think the Charter, the Lawbook, and the Decree Book will be much easier to follow if there is consistency, at least.

[Erik Mortis]

Well. When I put the current Charter in place I cleared it out so much that it should have no room for reductions. But I put most of that law into the Decreebook. and other older law has been piling up there...

[Jacobus Loki]

You have my full support in this task!

[Kaiser Hasan I]

Yes, this seems entirely reasonable. Consensus is the best bet for the longevity of the state, and your proposal seems an excellent idea.

[Erik Mortis]

Funny you mention consensus.. I just wrote an 8 page paper on it monday.

[hypatias mom]

In APA format? Of course? Poor you. Don't worry--it's almost June...

[Erik Mortis]

yes. APA. Nah. I'm done about now.

[hypatias mom]

And is it graduation time, or do you still have some terms left at the University?

[Erik Mortis]

1 semester (not even)

[hypatias mom]

Let us know when congratulatiions are in order. A bachelor's degeee is always an accomplishment, and shows perseverence (or at least stubbornness). Go, Erik...

[Erik Mortis]

BA in Psychology
Minor in Computer Science and graduating as a member of the Psychology Honours Society (Psy Chi)

[hypatias mom]

Those are impressive degrees, indeed. Anyone may be proud of that accomplishment. So, what is the official date of your graduation?

[Erik Mortis]

December. but I won't get to walk till May.

[hypatias mom]

So we will celebrate with you in December with a glass raised in your honor, and await the official festivities in May.

[Erik Mortis]

I think I'm done...

http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Decreebook_new
http://www.shireroth.org/shirewiki/Lawbook_new

I did not include the economy stuff. because there are legal issues with it. And I think half goes into the Procedures of the Landsraad. and I think the other half should be in the Lawbook and not the Decreebook.

[Erik Mortis]

If the Kaiser would be willing to decree these both in place (both legal to do so) (and if not I won't complain...) it would help clean up our laws a great deal.

[Kaiser Hasan I]

No problem, but it'll have to wait for the weekend if thats alright?

[Erik Mortis]

Fine by me. And I'll take care of the Wiki side of things. I got it all planned out.